Got Pulled Over!

Topic 17330 | Page 1

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Joshua P.'s Comment
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I got pulled over by WV trooper the other day for traveling unreasonably fast but the cop gave me a break on that, so the real issue is when he looked at my logs. Ill cut to the chase and say i got a citation for false logs for using off duty driving for reasons other than personal use. Im lucky i didnt get put out of service. Now, Prime claims that you can use off duty driving to find parking near by to reset after all freight has been delivered and waiting on reload. The trooper claims thats illegal. So i want to know is it legal to use off duty driving to find a truckstop or other parking place to wait for a reload when the reciever doesnt allow truck parking? Like i said PRIME INC. ALLOWS THIS only when empty and finding parking for reset and waiting for reload.

Steve L.'s Comment
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I got pulled over by WV trooper the other day for traveling unreasonably fast but the cop gave me a break on that, so the real issue is when he looked at my logs. Ill cut to the chase and say i got a citation for false logs for using off duty driving for reasons other than personal use. Im lucky i didnt get put out of service. Now, Prime claims that you can use off duty driving to find parking near by to reset after all freight has been delivered and waiting on reload. The trooper claims thats illegal. So i want to know is it legal to use off duty driving to find a truckstop or other parking place to wait for a reload when the reciever doesnt allow truck parking? Like i said PRIME INC. ALLOWS THIS only when empty and finding parking for reset and waiting for reload.

Sounds like you're doing work, so would be illegal. But, can't you just say you delivered a load and decided to go get something to eat and therefore, it's personal use?

timerider's Comment
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I would think state law trumps what your employer says, but then again it is a positive for your employer to be backing you up. Good luck, hope everything goes smooth for you or at least in your favor.

Joshua P.'s Comment
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I got pulled over by WV trooper the other day for traveling unreasonably fast but the cop gave me a break on that, so the real issue is when he looked at my logs. Ill cut to the chase and say i got a citation for false logs for using off duty driving for reasons other than personal use. Im lucky i didnt get put out of service. Now, Prime claims that you can use off duty driving to find parking near by to reset after all freight has been delivered and waiting on reload. The trooper claims thats illegal. So i want to know is it legal to use off duty driving to find a truckstop or other parking place to wait for a reload when the reciever doesnt allow truck parking? Like i said PRIME INC. ALLOWS THIS only when empty and finding parking for reset and waiting for reload.

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Sounds like you're doing work, so would be illegal. But, can't you just say you delivered a load and decided to go get something to eat and therefore, it's personal use?

By what the trooper said, not with a trailer connected. Personal use is all done while bobtailing.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
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The trooper is correct. If you have a trailer attached, even if you're not under a load or assigned to a load, you cannot use off duty driving.

murderspolywog's Comment
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My understanding is to use personal convinces, there 3 things that have to be meet, 1 not under a load or dispatched on a load. 2 bobtail only. 3 have to return to your starting point. If those three criteria are not meet then you can not use personal convinces.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Rick S.'s Comment
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Since it appears you are in a lease - do you get "Line 5" (personal conveyance) on your E-Logs - or do you run it as "Off Duty"?

FMCSA "Guidance says "personal conveyance is when: a driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work, time spent traveling from a driver’s home to his/her terminal (normal work reporting location), or from a driver’s terminal to his/her home, may be considered off-duty time. Similarly, time spent traveling short distances from a driver’s en route lodgings (such as en route terminals or motels) to restaurants in the vicinity of such lodgings may be considered off-duty time. The type of conveyance used from the terminal to the driver’s home, from the driver’s home to the terminal, or to restaurants in the vicinity of en route lodgings would not alter the situation unless the vehicle is laden. A driver may not operate a laden CMV as a personal conveyance. The driver who uses a motor carrier’s Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) for transportation home, and is subsequently called by the employing carrier and is then dispatched from home, would be on-duty from the time the driver leaves home.

While it does not specifically say "bobtail only", and legally - "unladen" means "empty trailer, not under BOL" - it also states that driving home from a terminal can be logged "off duty", but leaving home under dispatch to a pickup is ON DUTY. Though the guidance (again) doesn't state the going home portion to be bobtail , and one could assume that leaving home to go to a pickup, that you would be dragging a box.

You would have been put OOS , if you actually had no available hours to drive. But a log falsification charge can be pretty serious - I wonder what Prime ends up saying about this.

Now, Prime claims that you can use off duty driving to find parking near by to reset after all freight has been delivered and waiting on reload

As far as driving "off duty" from a drop, to a truck stop, parking, etc. - this is NOT LEGAL, as the trooper told you. If you got TO the truck stop, and decided to go to a motel, or a nearby restaurant or Walmart from there (and return to there, or stay at a motel) - that WOULD BE legal (technically).

My understanding is to use personal convinces, there 3 things that have to be meet, 1 not under a load or dispatched on a load. 2 bobtail only. 3 have to return to your starting point. If those three criteria are not meet then you can not use personal convinces.

Technically - only #1 is correct. The rule is kind vague on number 2 (as far as what "unladen" actually means - as legally, it is empty trailer not under dispatch or BOL), and number 3 precludes the "return to home from terminal"/leave under dispatch part of the FMCSA guidance (where you CAN drive home from the terminal in Off Duty status).

COMPANY DRIVERS aren't typically permitted "Personal Conveyance" use, or if they are - it is VERY LIMITED - companies don't want you out cruising on their fuel $$. Since lease/OO are paying their own fuel and expenses, company wouldn't care if you ran the Indy 500 in your truck - it's not on their dime.

Rick

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

Commercial Motor Vehicle:

A commercial motor vehicle is any vehicle used in commerce to transport passengers or property with either:

  • A gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more
  • A gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more which includes a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds
  • CSA:

    Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

    The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

    FMCSA:

    Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

    The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

    What Does The FMCSA Do?

    • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
    • Data and Analysis
    • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
    • Research and Technology
    • Safety Assistance
    • Support and Information Sharing

    CMV:

    Commercial Motor Vehicle

    A CMV is a vehicle that is used as part of a business, is involved in interstate commerce, and may fit any of these descriptions:

    • Weighs 10,001 pounds or more
    • Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more
    • Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) not for compensation
    • Is designed or used to transport 9 or more passengers (including the driver) for compensation
    • Is transporting hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placards

    Fm:

    Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

    The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

    HOS:

    Hours Of Service

    HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

    OOS:

    When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Pat M.'s Comment
member avatar

Rick I have to disagree. Unladen means just that, not even a trailer attached. Otherwise drivers would use that to reposition for the next load. Some of the key things to support this are where they talk about being off route etc.

I did go to the text you quoted and asked them to define unladen more clearly.

murderspolywog's Comment
member avatar

I think that unladen and relieved or all responsibility is the key wording, means bobtail. He is a lease op, so the truck is his but the trailer is the company's so by having a trailer attached, he still has responsibility, just as if he gets dispatched from home he has a responsibility. There used to be something about reasonable travel distense as well I think it was 50 miles or 2 hours. Or that could have been set by company's.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar

Rick I have to disagree. Unladen means just that, not even a trailer attached. Otherwise drivers would use that to reposition for the next load. Some of the key things to support this are where they talk about being off route etc.

I did go to the text you quoted and asked them to define unladen more clearly.

Article on Personal Conveyance

I still haven't been able to find an FMSCA Definition of "UNLADEN". Most of the references I've seen, talk about bobtail - but the "legal definition" of unladen is still "not carrying property in commerce" - which would still refer to an "empty trailer" (versus bobtail). Love to see some ACTUAL CLARIFICATION of this - but the general consensus is BOBTAIL to be safe. Which again, excludes "going from terminal to home" with a trailer in tow.

This "personal conveyance" exception may have been SO ABUSED (because we like to ABUSE STUFF), that without a "clear definition" from FMSCA - it's still going to have to be BOBTAIL to convince a DOT/Trooper of that scenario.

ANY WAY YOU SLICE IT - the inference from the ORIGINAL POST - that you can leave a receiver empty, and go find a parking spot as "Off Duty/Personal Conveyance" is INCORRECT and not legal under ANY CIRCUMSTANCE. "Re-positioning Equipment", is ON DUTY DRIVING.

I don't know which citation I'd rather get - "traveling unreasonably fast" (and I'd really LOVE TO HEAR the explanation of exactly what he was doing to get stopped for that) or a LOG FALSIFICATION.

Rick

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
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