Got Pulled Over!

Topic 17330 | Page 7

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Rainy D.'s Comment
member avatar

I'm going to add that this message has changed over the last few.months. the one I had said nothing of pulling freight or bobtail. It basically said "you must be empty and driving a short distance or stop and change your status."

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar

I'm going to add that this message has changed over the last few.months. the one I had said nothing of pulling freight or bobtail. It basically said "you must be empty and driving a short distance or stop and change your status."

I'm still just really surprised. Because running from a receiver empty, to a truck stop or rest area, using off-duty personal convenience, as an obvious log falsification - according to the current interpretation of the rule on FMCSA's site.

Having a smaller company tell you to do this, would be understandable, as they typically bend all the rules to the breaking point. Having somebody as large as Prime tell you to do this is whacked out.

Unless FMCSA has changed PC to include movement from a 90 to a truck stop. If you were running from a 90 to your HOME - yes. To a truck stop/rest area - NO.

Rick

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
John L.'s Comment
member avatar

Rick said:

If you were running from a 90 to your HOME - yes. To a truck stop/rest area - NO.

Been reading this thread with interest.

Rick, I don't see the difference.

What if the truck stop is my designated parking area for my truck during my home time? Or what if I'm taking my home time some place where I don't normally go - and therefore park the truck at the TS during my off-duty time? Or perhaps I'm just taking a 34 hour reset at the TS, or my 10 hour reset...?

Off duty is off duty is it not? So driving line 5 to the TS to spend off duty time seems to meet the letter (if not the intent) of the rule.

Your thoughts?

Mr M's Comment
member avatar

The truck stop is our home :( Lol

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

The truck stop is our home :( Lol

I get what you are trying to say. Legally the address on your license is your home.

Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar

Rick said:

double-quotes-start.png

If you were running from a 90 to your HOME - yes. To a truck stop/rest area - NO.

double-quotes-end.png

Been reading this thread with interest.

Rick, I don't see the difference.

What if the truck stop is my designated parking area for my truck during my home time? Or what if I'm taking my home time some place where I don't normally go - and therefore park the truck at the TS during my off-duty time? Or perhaps I'm just taking a 34 hour reset at the TS, or my 10 hour reset...?

Off duty is off duty is it not? So driving line 5 to the TS to spend off duty time seems to meet the letter (if not the intent) of the rule.

Your thoughts?

Therein lies the rub - which is why this rule is so abused - and probably why we're going to see drivers getting written for log falsifications a lot.

Going from a drop to a rest area (TS or whatever) is still "re-positioning equipment" - ON DUTY. We see the same thing happen when drivers run out of hours at a shipper and the shipper wants you off the property. If moving from the shipper to a place to rest was OK as line5 driving - no one would EVER HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THIS. You CAN DRIVE LINE5 if you are out of hours - if you are LEGITIMATELY USING IT FOR PERSONAL CONVEYANCE. So - if your 70 is gone, and you just make it to a TS with minutes to spare on your 11/14 - you can go Line5 to run to Walmart, restaurant, etc. - LEGALLY on Line5 (though I wouldn't want to be dragging even an empty box and try to explain it).

If (for example) the truckstop is where you leave your truck for home time - then this would be a valid application of Line5 driving. If you were leaving a drop and taking your 10 at the truck stop - it would NOT BE.

The difference is obviously - INTENT. Since the trooper or DOT inspector is going to assume you ARE CHEATING - it's up to you (us) to prove you AREN'T.

So - for example - you Line5'd from a drop, to a truck stop - then took 3 days of home time - this would be fairly obvious if you rolled a weigh station, and they did a log audit.

But - if you have a load after your home time - as soon as you jump in the truck under dispatch - you are ON DUTY. If you have no load you are dispatched on, and are returning to a company terminal to wait for a load - LINE5 is LEGAL. QC goes off while you are on the way to the terminal and dispatches you on a load - you're legally required to go ON DUTY.

OTOH - if you rolled Line5 to a truck stop from a drop, took a 10 hour break, then rolled to a pickup and got your logs examined - it would be a FALSIFICATION, as the rule doesn't allow you to move to a rest stop to take a break on line 5.

OTOOH (other OTHER hand) - if you rolled from a drop ON DUTY DRIVING - went off duty at the truck stop - went line5 to get some dinner - your 10 hour break would not be interrupted by the line5 drive.

Folks that are looking to BEND the rules - are probably in fact, risking BREAKING THEM. Get CAUGHT - and I doubt the company is going to come to your rescue - even if they "wink wink, nod nod, Bob's yer uncle" tell you it's OK to roll from a drop to a rest area for your 10 hour break on Line5.

IT'S NOT LEGAL by the definition and explanation of the rule - otherwise EVERYONE WOULD USE IT when they ran out of clock and were EMPTY.

NONE OF THIS is legal - if you have a load in the box and are under a BOL - except if you drop the box and bobtail. And I don't believe you can drop a loaded box anywhere but on a company terminal. I don't think the company is going to like you leaving a loaded box at a TS/rest area (even with a kingpin & gladhand lock) to go running around on Line5.

I'm also assuming the original poster - after getting his citation, had to go ON DUTY/DRIVING to complete his move to the TS - so if he started his 10 hour break at the shipper, and hoped his LINE5 driving would continue it - NOPE - his 10 hour break starts again, when he gets to the TS and goes OFF DUTY.

All this stuff was REAL EASY TO CHEAT on paper logs. With GPS and ELOGS - it gets a lot harder, since locations are put into the logs when you change duty status. So you go OFF DUTY at a shipper - then go ON DUTY at a TS 20 miles from the shipper? Something fishy going on there. You can 'splain it, all you want - but - like Josh (the original poster) you are going to catch that trooper and get written if you get caught.

Again - if you think you're "beating the system" - you are probably CHEATING THE SYSTEM - get caught, and you'll get cited. It looks like there's a lot of grey areas and wiggle room - but there really isn't.

I personally - fight EVERY CITATION I have ever gotten. I hope Josh took the "ticket insurance" the company offers - and in reality - since it looks like the company (Prime) is telling drivers it's OK to do an "equipment move from receiver to rest area" on Line5 - I'd ask THEM TO DEFEND ME on this citation. Since it's a TROOPER - their job is to write tickets and go to court - so the odds of a no-show-dismissal aren't all that great.

Rick

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Elogs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar

And in reality (and as an afterthought) - if you were to go "off duty" when you arrived at the receiver, got stuck there for awhile (let's say 5 hours) waiting to get unloaded, then rolled Line5 to a TS to complete your 10 hour break - you would be able to drive again after 5 hours at the truck stop (5 at the drop off duty, travel to the TS off duty, 5 hours at the TS off duty = 10 hour break).

Again - obviously not the intent of the Off Duty/Personal Conveyance "Drive on Line 5" rule.

At the risk of sounding redundant redundant redundant redundant...

Rick

Joshua P.'s Comment
member avatar

Wow, alot of replys. I posted this almost a year ago and havent checked or been to this site since then. Well to put it short the outcome was a $218 fine for false logs that i paid during my court visit last march and i was on my way. To answer rainy's question citations said "your on your own" because the moving violation. This occured on i64 on the downgrade 45mph zone and i was doing about 55. Some one asked what traveling unreasonably fast ment, it means that your driving 1-15 mph over the posted limit and speeding is 15+ over posted limit. Dont quote me on the exact numbers but its somthing like that. But thats based of CT laws not WV so i call it unreasonably fast. Btw sorry for the super late post need to visit these forums more often again.

Susan D. 's Comment
member avatar

This is indeed an old post, but I will add this. At my company we do not have ability to use line 5 on our elogs at all. Per our log compliance department, personal conveyance must be bobtail , not under dispatch, and you must start out and return TO /FROM the SAME LOCATION.

Because personal conveyance is so often misunderstand by drivers, my company simply doesn't allow it to make sure we have no violations of this sort.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Elogs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Joshua P.'s Comment
member avatar

I only used it when out of hours going from receiver to place to park while empty. Prime said its legal, tropper said its not so now i do not use it all exept bobtail at home, i dont even use it when i drop trailer and en route home.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

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