'birth' Of Drive-time Regulations

Topic 18279 | Page 1

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Space M.'s Comment
member avatar

...a little background on myself - I have always been in shipping/distribution in all of my working life, and trucking is a catagory that is involved in that same heading (shipping/distribution), but I just started (maybe somewhat late in life) in the actual driving of a commercial vehicle in mid 2010, which also includes driving a 18-wheeler the last 20 months, and currently. In these previous 20 months, the first year I was driving over-the-road, and now I currently drive a day-cab, where I am now home everyday. This is where I am now.

...to my questions - I guess my question is based on some 'trucking history'...back in the day where unions, government regulations, (and maybe even a few riots) were all the 'rave'. - my questions - were one of the reasons of the 'birth' of these regulations include the 'need' to regulate how much time in a day/week that a driver could drive?...and was it because, at the time, drivers could basically drive as much as they wanted to?

Errol V.'s Comment
member avatar
...to my questions - I guess my question is based on some 'trucking history'...back in the day where unions, government regulations, (and maybe even a few riots) were all the 'rave'. - my questions - were one of the reasons of the 'birth' of these regulations include the 'need' to regulate how much time in a day/week that a driver could drive?...and was it because, at the time, drivers could basically drive as much as they wanted to?

The short answer: yes.

One reason for the creation of a particular law or regulation is that someone is abusing the current status quo.

If a driver is paid by the mile, isn't the obvious solution to just drive as many miles in a day as you can? "Sleep be d***ned, I need the money" is an attitude and choice that has killed many truckers and innocent people. So the FMCSA has come up with a rule that limits your driving to 11 hours in any 24 hour period, and not all at once either. You need at least one break to get that 11 hours.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Old School's Comment
member avatar

Space M, we are in the situation that we are in because we (truck drivers collectively) refused to regulate ourselves. Even when we were using paper logs we were dong our own "creative writing." Haha! We were liars and cheats, and every DPS officer that stopped us knew that. The problem was that some of us were really good at it, and they had a hard time catching us.

Soooo, we are now under a federal mandate to use electronic logging devices that are tied into our trucks computer systems.

In a nutshell, we brought this on ourselves. We produced this thing that is being birthed into existence today. It's a terrible thing to be responsible for the regulations that you have to live under, but I think the mirror is the only place we need to look to recognize who the father of this child is.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

1938 is when the original HOS rules were introduced. You could argue either way why they were introduced; overall it was to reduce fatigue but some would say it was because of carriers taking advantage of the driver, others to require an enterprising driver to break for sleep not pushing beyond the limit of exhaustion.

Elogs like OS posted, levels the playing field and makes enforcement for DOT much easier. Not being a fan of paper logs, elogs requires little effort to manage.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Elogs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Victor C. II's Comment
member avatar

Honestly, I wish that we didn't have these time regulations because we could travel farther and make better money, BUT I understand why they are there for, because some of us were not too smart and now those of us who were not so smart brought this upon ourselves. I am not a trucker and I am neither for or against E-logs but it does frustrate me as a future trucker of America, that those before me did not think about us future truckers. Like I said afore I do understand why they are were put in place.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Old School's Comment
member avatar

Victor, as it is now, you can still make some good money. Technically you can drive for eleven hours each day, and there is no limit on how many hours you can work in a day doing non driving duties.

Driving eleven hours with the level of awareness that it takes to operate an 80,000 pound machine while sharing the highways with the motoring public is a pretty tall order in itself. You'll discover that after doing that on a daily basis you will be more than relieved to get in that sleeper. I still do 650 mile days much of the time. I see no reason to need more than that.

Victor C. II's Comment
member avatar

Victor, as it is now, you can still make some good money. Technically you can drive for eleven hours each day, and there is no limit on how many hours you can work in a day doing non driving duties.

Driving eleven hours with the level of awareness that it takes to operate an 80,000 pound machine while sharing the highways with the motoring public is a pretty tall order in itself. You'll discover that after doing that on a daily basis you will be more than relieved to get in that sleeper. I still do 650 mile days much of the time. I see no reason to need more than that.

That is very encouraging after you said that because sometimes I feel like everything that the government does like the regulations is to cause us truckers not to be able to make as much money as we could but if you are doing 650 miles a day then heck I am good, and I agree I think I would b running into the sleeper after driving that long. lol. Thanks Old School!

not4hire's Comment
member avatar

The short answer: yes.

One reason for the creation of a particular law or regulation is that someone is abusing the current status quo.

If a driver is paid by the mile, isn't the obvious solution to just drive as many miles in a day as you can? "Sleep be d***ned, I need the money" is an attitude and choice that has killed many truckers and innocent people. So the FMCSA has come up with a rule that limits your driving to 11 hours in any 24 hour period, and not all at once either. You need at least one break to get that 11 hours.

Err... not quite.

It is maximum 11 hours driving after 10 hours consecutive off-duty. A driver may actually drive as much as about 13 hours in a day, depending on how "efficient" they are with their mandatory inspections, breaks, etc..

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar
Err... not quite. It is maximum 11 hours driving after 10 hours consecutive off-duty. A driver may actually drive as much as about 13 hours in a day, depending on how "efficient" they are with their mandatory inspections, breaks, etc..

Not4 is - technically - correct.

You get 11 hours to drive - in a 14 hour clock (window) that starts the moment you come on duty (typically - for a PTI). Within the 11 hours - you are required to take a 1/2 hour break (which must occur after a maximum of 8 continuous hours of driving) - which still counts on your 14 (which practically, makes the 14 a 13.5 USABLE hour clock).

So if you were SUPER EFFICIENT - and only spent 1/2 hour for pre-trip & fueling - plus your 1/2 hour break - would have used 12.0 hours of a 14 hour day . If you did a 10 hour break, you would then have 2 hours in that contiguous 24 hour period left to drive - for a total of 13 hours in that 24 hour period.

This assumes of course, that you are a T-2000 Series terminator, and don't stop to eat or use the bathroom any time during that 24 hour period also.

Theoretically - it could be done. Practically - don't know very many folks that can actually pull it off (or really would want to). May take you a 1/2 hour in the fuel line to get a pump, another 15 minutes to get paid and on your way. Waiting to check in at shippers/receivers, etc. Much of the time, you are lucky if you actually get to DRIVE your full 11 in your 14 hour On Duty Day.

This is not to "contest" what Not4 is saying - but more to illustrate that, under most practical circumstances, if you are driving for your full 11 hour day - chances are you are going to burn through the additional 2.5 hours on your 14 hour on-duty clock (which keeps rolling for your 1/2 hour break, lunch, pottie and any other time you use - even if it's logged as Off Duty for your 70 hour clock).

An interesting observation though, nonetheless.

The rules were created as a safety measure, both to assure the driver gets sufficient rest so they aren't driving exhausted and create a public safety hazard - and to legally prevent the company from forcing the driver to do so. Back in the (pre) Hoffa days, drivers were treated like slaves, paid very little, forced to work dehumanizing hours.

Some history on this can be found in the wikipedia article about Hours Of Service.

Rick

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

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