Thoughts?

Topic 20791 | Page 1

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Serah D.'s Comment
member avatar

This mainly affects O/Os, but l just would like to know what are your thoughts are on this?

http://www.overdriveonline.com/no-more-catching-up-the-log-book-with-elds-a-paradigm-shift-that-raises-numerous-issues/

Old School's Comment
member avatar

Serah, I think it is a silly argument at best. Nothing is changing about the rules - the regulations are still the same. In fact millions of drivers are using E-logs these days, and these imaginary problems that they discuss in this panel are virtually non-existent. The problem is that these folks want to keep cheating the system, and now they are not being allowed. So they want to claim that it is some sort of infringement of their liberties by Big Brother! It is a terrible thing (apparently) to have to play by the rules!

I am not real happy with the rules - In fact I think the fourteen hour rule is flat out dangerous, but I still must abide by it. They are just bitter because they will now have to abide by the rules. I love the way they choose their words. What should be called cheating and lying is called "catching up your log book!" That makes it sound really nice and legitimate, as if their legitimacy is being taken away from them by having to use E-logs. If they want to have a positive effect on the regulations, they should focus their efforts on changing the bad regulations, not on the way we are having to confirm that we are abiding by those rules. Our abuse of the log books is how we got ourselves into this problem in the first place. We brought this on ourselves, so now we want to cry foul? Shame on us!

Don't you just love the ending of the article. They let you know that those in attendance applauded - like that means it was a meaningful discussion, a bunch of truck drivers applauding! rofl-3.gif

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Chris L.'s Comment
member avatar

Call it cheating if you want I still run around 3000 miles on paper, same as I would on electronic. The only difference is I choose to sleep when I'm tired instead of pushing through.

I'm the only one left at our company still on paper, I've asked to stay on paper as long as possible and my dispatch is working with me. Corporate although has asked why I'm not on electronic logs yet. So I'll be switching over soon I'm sure.

If running paper logs is cheating then I would say anyone driving 5 mph to stay off duty is also cheating and parking on site to deliver off duty as well, but we all do it.

Electronic Logs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Old School's Comment
member avatar

Chris, I never said running on paper was cheating, although it will be soon. What I stated was that making up your own rules when everyone else has to abide by the real rules is cheating. You see we all have to abide by that stupid 14 hour rule, but you have the luxury of cheating that rule. I'd love to be on paper, but that is fast becoming a non issue out here. That is exactly why I say those folks are focusing on the wrong thing. They are going to pat themselves on the back all the way until they have to be doing just like the rest of us, all to no avail. They could have put all this wasted effort into showing the dangers of the fourteen hour rule, rather than focusing all their fire power on the ELD mandate. They are fighting the wrong battle, and not improving anything for anybody. I know how to work, and it is not unusual for me to run 3,200 and sometimes up around 3,400 miles on E-logs.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

MC1371's Comment
member avatar

Thank you OS!

Lost track of how many times I've had the same discussion/argument on various other forums. ELD is a lazy persons dream, no more fumbling around with paper, pen and ruler and dreading the inevitable spill or ripped sheets.

The problem is and will really come to light once people can't fudge any longer is the 14.

The one that jumps out and is really going to show with the reefer guys is dock waits. Set yourself up nice and close to the customer, drive 10-15 min to arrive. Then sit for 6 hours... Day blown.

Paper guys will fudge the above, and not go on until load/unload is complete. Yup interesting times ahead, especially with those customers that like slapping fines on late arrivals and rescheduled.

I've only been out here 10 months and have three locations I won't touch because they use slow lumpers. (Seattle, Long Beach, Georgia)

Reefer:

A refrigerated trailer.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
member avatar

There's quite a bit more going on with the ELD battle than most people realize. It does involve HOS rules as well as addressing the ideas of national training standards. As the time potentially grows closer, you're already seeing several groups demanding exemptions. Livestock haulers (which I totally understand) FedEx, UPS, the postal service and a few others. Granted, the meat of the argument is electronic logs but it's not all about drivers wanting to fudge paperwork. It involves the argument put forth that elogs improve safety, which a few studies have shown they do not and will not. Along with those who are also saying to follow the money and see who is doing what and why. Thanks to lobbyists and specifically the ATA, companies who make up less than 10% of the industry are using politics to force the other 90% to comply. The entire situation is way too long to get into in here but there are some very good reads on what is really going on, why and who is behind it.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Elogs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Electronic Logs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Big T's Comment
member avatar

Did anyone else find it interesting that one of the issues they site is having to force shippers and receivers to understand hos and to speed up the loading/unloading process?

I was on paper for four years. Since coming back I have been on elogs. There are two differences. First off, trip planning is even more important because I cannot cheat my log if I get stuck in traffic or get held up at a customer. Second thing is there are no phone calls from dispatch pushing me to roll even though I'm out of hours.

I have gotten two minor violations since being back out here and both were because of poor planning on my part and cutting it too close.

The problem is the HOS, not the medium used to record them.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Elogs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar
The problem is the HOS , not the medium used to record them

I agree. It only makes sense to mandate electronic logs so that everyone can be track accurately and held to the same standards. The problem with the logbook rules is that they don't allow enough flexibility. I'm still appalled that the 14 hour rule exists at all, and they need to allow for more ways to split up the sleeper birth time.

Logbook:

A written or electronic record of a driver's duty status which must be maintained at all times. The driver records the amount of time spent driving, on-duty not driving, in the sleeper berth, or off duty. The enforcement of the Hours Of Service Rules (HOS) are based upon the entries put in a driver's logbook.

Electronic Logs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Patrick C.'s Comment
member avatar

There is a study out for changing up the sleeper berth differently. 7/3, 6-4, & 5-5 are all being looked at.

As I said in the post about how we would change the HOS. I think the 14 hr rule needs to be abolished. At the same time only tracking the drive time in a day would allow hourly guys to put in days that are towards being unsafe.

I personally think the best change would be to abolish the 14 hr rule, change 11hr driving to 12 hrs of on duty, change the sleeper to include 8/2, 7/3, & 6/4.

So after a driver accumulates 12hrs of on duty time they are required to take a 10 hr break. With using the sleeper berth provision, no one can complain they are being forced to run a certain way. There would be more than enough flexibility to suit a lot of different driving styles.

Sleeper Berth:

The portion of the tractor behind the seats which acts as the "living space" for the driver. It generally contains a bed (or bunk beds), cabinets, lights, temperature control knobs, and 12 volt plugs for power.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
member avatar

Patrick, if they would do away with the 14, there's no need for a split sleeper provision.

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