Thoughts?

Topic 20791 | Page 3

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millionmiler24's Comment
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The problem is the HOS , not the medium used to record them

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I agree. It only makes sense to mandate electronic logs so that everyone can be track accurately and held to the same standards. The problem with the logbook rules is that they don't allow enough flexibility. I'm still appalled that the 14 hour rule exists at all, and they need to allow for more ways to split up the sleeper birth time.

Death to the 14 hour rule! Who's with me?

Logbook:

A written or electronic record of a driver's duty status which must be maintained at all times. The driver records the amount of time spent driving, on-duty not driving, in the sleeper berth, or off duty. The enforcement of the Hours Of Service Rules (HOS) are based upon the entries put in a driver's logbook.

Electronic Logs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Errol V.'s Comment
member avatar

Robert B Dragon restates:

I see where you're coming from Errol but not being able to stop the clock when jammed up at a shipper for 5 or 6 hours while that clock ticks away on the 14 is unnerving. I have a good example of why paper is better, especially in regards to the 14 but I'll have to type it up in a bit.

Been there, done that. Inform your DM of the delay. But they surely know that could happen. Start planning where you will spend the next ten hours. Do not allow your nerves to become unned. If you can manage, start your off duty while you wait at the shipper. And then, you know, putt-putt across the street to finish your 10. (Coca Cola bottling, New Orleans, 2016)

Try waiting 24 hours at a shipper, more than once. On The day before you're supposed to get home.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
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Now see, this is a bit ironic because folks keep bringing up situations where you have to violate HOS rules to get off the customers property or get down the road a couple miles. Something that folks on paper have done for years through a quick adjustment yet they're accused of cheating and being the cause.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
MC1371's Comment
member avatar

Now see, this is a bit ironic because folks keep bringing up situations where you have to violate HOS rules to get off the customers property or get down the road a couple miles. Something that folks on paper have done for years through a quick adjustment yet they're accused of cheating and being the cause.

Technically they are cheating. The ELD mandate will only shine a light on how painfully unrealistic the 14 is in practical application.

And I've yet to see a really clear answer on "Safe Harbor" travel.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
member avatar

Safe Haven only applies to Hazmat loads and in special circumstances, permit loads. There are a few instances, weather related or traffic jam due to accident delays which will grant enough time to get you off the roadway but your company needs to be well aware of what's going on.

I've been playing devils advocate on this one and know I've ticked a few people off with my comments but what I've been trying to bring up is that everyone bends and breaks the rules pretty much every day to maximize that clock and give themselves run time. The idea that elogs somehow make things safer, especially under the current HOS regs is completely false.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Elogs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

HAZMAT:

Hazardous Materials

Explosive, flammable, poisonous or otherwise potentially dangerous cargo. Large amounts of especially hazardous cargo are required to be placarded under HAZMAT regulations

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Patrick C.'s Comment
member avatar

Let's be honest, creative log booking is not going anywhere. You can still do it with elogs. In fact you have to be more creative since you can't just wipe away transgressions with the flick of a pen.

HOW allows up to 15 mph before the ELD switches us to the drive line. I have used this to reposition within an industrial park more than once. I have zero issue with being creative with my logbook. Just as long as I am the one making that decision. It is after all my butt on the line if a DOT officer doesn't like what he sees.

Logbook:

A written or electronic record of a driver's duty status which must be maintained at all times. The driver records the amount of time spent driving, on-duty not driving, in the sleeper berth, or off duty. The enforcement of the Hours Of Service Rules (HOS) are based upon the entries put in a driver's logbook.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Elogs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar

The ELD's are going to prevent the really egregious abuse, like solo drivers running multiple logbooks or turning 5,000 mile weeks. It's also going to allow log auditing to be done faster and easier on a large-scale.

The old logbook rules were about as perfect as they could get. Take the logbook rules from the 90s and add the 34 hour reset and you have about the perfect set of rules.

Robert, I've agreed with all of the points you've been making.

Logbook:

A written or electronic record of a driver's duty status which must be maintained at all times. The driver records the amount of time spent driving, on-duty not driving, in the sleeper berth, or off duty. The enforcement of the Hours Of Service Rules (HOS) are based upon the entries put in a driver's logbook.

Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
member avatar

Thanks Brett, I appreciate that. I've just gotten tired of seeing the constant statements all over the place claiming that it's all those drivers on paper logs running illegally that got us to where we are and it's simply not true. Not every driver ran crazy and we know it. There are drivers still out there who have been driving for 30-40 some even 50 years. They've run multiple books and they've fudged here and there yet they have millions of safe miles under their belt. It's hilarious to me to see companies who pushed the forced elog mandate now wanting to apply for exemptions because they realize how it will effect their business.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar
It's hilarious to me to see companies who pushed the forced elog mandate now wanting to apply for exemptions because they realize how it will effect their business.

I'm not sure how many companies fall on both sides of the isle, but that can also be a competitive tactic. You can compete in an open marketplace, and you can also compete through legislation. For instance, the LTL companies were one of the big ones that push for an 11 Hour drive time instead of 10 hours because they have so many runs that can be made in just under 11 hours but not quite in 10. Livestock haulers use the excuse that it's for the good of the animals that they should be able to run more hours than anybody else without an extended break.

Everyone is always looking for a competitive advantage.

I don't think anyone is to blame for the industry going to electronic logs. I think it's just a natural evolution to go to more advanced technology for tracking.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Electronic Logs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

LTL:

Less Than Truckload

Refers to carriers that make a lot of smaller pickups and deliveries for multiple customers as opposed to hauling one big load of freight for one customer. This type of hauling is normally done by companies with terminals scattered throughout the country where freight is sorted before being moved on to its destination.

LTL carriers include:

  • FedEx Freight
  • Con-way
  • YRC Freight
  • UPS
  • Old Dominion
  • Estes
  • Yellow-Roadway
  • ABF Freight
  • R+L Carrier
Old School's Comment
member avatar

Robert, I've always felt it was a rogue few (in any industry) that causes the general public's perceptions to give rise to public pressure on regulators to "do something" about their perceived ills or safety issues. If anything, that is what I mean by we are at fault ourselves. I'm not laying blame on those of us who are using paper, but on our industry as a whole, and the way we have conducted ourselves. We, as truck drivers, have a very poor record of public relations. The whole world thinks we are dumb lazy slobs who don't have the brains to do anything else, so we become truck drivers. They found some sort of evidence to come up with that conclusion.

Brett is probably more right than either of us on the natural evolution of technology than we would like to admit. I do believe there are some influential persons in the industry who when they first heard of the possibility of electronic logs , saw a little way that they might gain some advantages over their competitors by insisting that everyone play the game on the same field. They knew full well how negatively that would affect their competition, which, of course, completely negates their bogus claim of desiring a level playing field. And, that is of course why they got on board so heavily to push this thing forward like they have - no question in my mind about that.

You know as well as I, that I manage to work my own flexibility into my e-logs, just as a driver on paper logs does his. If we didn't manage our time in a way that works for us we would all be settling for being boringly average truck drivers as far as our income goes. I know we both agree that the 14 hour rule is the Elephant in the room that always seems to get ignored. That is why I say that so many of us are fighting the wrong battle. We are fussing over how we record our compliance with the rules, when part of the rules is where the real problem lies.

Electronic Logs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
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