Logging While Being (Un)Loaded

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Unholychaos's Comment
member avatar

I was told during my annual training that, if waiting to be loaded or unloaded, we are to be logged on duty if sitting in the drivers seat or sleeper anywhere else, save for the dock area; no logging off duty. Can anyone shed some light on this and why?

Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
member avatar

Ahhhh such a fun question with a million potential answers. In your case, the company you drive for has made it their policy and that's how they want it logged. Now, technically, if you're at the dock and you aren't counting the load, assisting, etc, you can be off duty. Every company makes their own policies on this issue and they're all different. My company only requires showing a minimum of 10 minutes to load or unload. Heck, it takes that long to grab tarps and put them on top, not counting rolling them out and pinning them down lol. For now, just so it their way but understand that if you ever go somewhere else, the policy will most likely vary. I'd have to open the big green book to copy and paste the regs but don't have it handy at the moment.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Unholychaos's Comment
member avatar

Ahhhh such a fun question with a million potential answers. In your case, the company you drive for has made it their policy and that's how they want it logged. Now, technically, if you're at the dock and you aren't counting the load, assisting, etc, you can be off duty. Every company makes their own policies on this issue and they're all different. My company only requires showing a minimum of 10 minutes to load or unload. Heck, it takes that long to grab tarps and put them on top, not counting rolling them out and pinning them down lol. For now, just so it their way but understand that if you ever go somewhere else, the policy will most likely vary. I'd have to open the big green book to copy and paste the regs but don't have it handy at the moment.

He actually pulled it from the FMCSA book. I don't remember where in that he found it, but it took him quite awhile to find it. It's definitely not just a Schneider thing.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Fatsquatch 's Comment
member avatar

According to FMCSA regs, all time spent at a dock either loading or unloading is supposed to be logged as on duty, whether you're physically on the dock assisting and/or watching or not. The only time you're supposed to be allowed to not be on duty while waiting is if you've disconnected from your trailer and are free to leave the customer's property.

That said, nobody does that, and most DOT inspectors will give you a pass for logging your time at the dock in the sleeper. They want the sleeper, because it shows that you're not in the left seat, preparing to drive in any capacity. Yes, most of the time you're going to be sitting there, staring in your mirror, trying desperately to psychokinetically force that light to turn green again. Yes, they know that. But doing it on line 2 is just a nice, safe, legal way of saying you have zero involvement in the actual physical loading or unloading process, so you're "taking a nap" while you wait. Kind of a CYA thing.

Make sense?

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Errol V.'s Comment
member avatar

Fatsquatch looks it up:

According to FMCSA regs, all time spent at a dock either loading or unloading is supposed to be logged as on duty, whether you're physically on the dock assisting and/or watching or not. The only time you're supposed to be allowed to not be on duty while waiting is if you've disconnected from your trailer and are free to leave the customer's property.

This is true. You are officially off duty when you are able to shut the truck down, walk away and go see a movie or something. However, if you are waiting at a shipper/receiver, the Sleeper bunk is now your friend. If you are actually not needed at the dock (which is most often for a dry van), or you are 4th in line to live unload at the only dock door, it's Sleeper time! Catch the Z's or warm up your Warcraft account while you are waiting.

At Swift, if you mix Off Duty and On Duty times at a stop, you get a message telling you to account for all the time you actually did work at the stop. It covers their butt, I'm sure. If your company has the "All Time Is On Duty Time" as you state, make sure they actually audit driver logs. If you don't hear about such an activity, the announcement is surely your company's CYA method. Especially if the only time you hear it is in your once a year training.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Dry Van:

A trailer or truck that that requires no special attention, such as refrigeration, that hauls regular palletted, boxed, or floor-loaded freight. The most common type of trailer in trucking.
Pianoman's Comment
member avatar

Yeah technically they're right, although DOT doesn't say a word about it when they check your logs as long as you log some On Duty time at shippers/receivers. If that's what Schneider wants, do it their way. If you don't want to do it their way, don't log Off Duty; log Sleeper instead. If you're sitting at a dock in the truck, you can't log Off Duty because you're still in the truck. Technically you might not be in the sleeper, but it's a whole lot easier to say you were in the sleeper than to say you left the truck in the dock and went shopping for 3 hours.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Unholychaos's Comment
member avatar

I did end up finding it.

ยง395.2 Definitions

On-duty time means all time from the time a driver begins to work or is required to be in readiness to work until the time the driver is relieved from work and all responsibility for performing work. On-duty time shall include:

(5) All time loading or unloading a commercial motor vehicle , supervising, or assisting in the loading or unloading, attending a commercial motor vehicle being loaded or unloaded, remaining in readiness to operate the commercial motor vehicle, or in giving or receiving receipts for shipments loaded or unloaded.

This was the reg he quoted me in relation to it, specifically the remaining in readiness part.

Source: https://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/retrieveECFR?gp=1&ty=HTML&h=L&mc=true&=PART&n=pt49.5.395#se49.5.395_12

Commercial Motor Vehicle:

A commercial motor vehicle is any vehicle used in commerce to transport passengers or property with either:

  • A gross vehicle weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more
  • A gross combination weight rating of 26,001 pounds or more which includes a towed unit with a gross vehicle weight rating of more than 10,000 pounds
Old School's Comment
member avatar

Okay Unholchaos, now you have got to define what you consider to be "remaining in readiness." Be careful how you define it, because you could be ruining your chance at maximizing your use of your seventy hour clock if you are not careful. There is a fine line of demarcation here that separates the people who learn how to be effectively efficient at this and those who are always coming up short on pay day. Even as a flat-bed driver, my logs reflect very little "on duty" time (percentage wise as compared to other types of duty time) when you look at the overall picture of my weekly logs. It is one of the things that my dispatcher comments on fairly frequently. He will sometimes ask me to get with another driver (usually a new one) and explain to him how to manage his logs better. If your logs show a decent amount of variety in them it makes them look good to any prospective law enforcement officer who will be taking a look at them. One of the things that officer is looking for is some degree of variety. I've had my logs combed through at various times and in various states during high level inspections with no issues whatsoever. I seldom log more than a total of twenty or thirty minutes at any stop for loading or unloading. Usually I will log a little bit of time when I arrive, and then a little bit of time before I depart from a stop - most of the other time while at a shipper is logged as "sleeper berth."

One of the things that defines a Top Tier Driver is his recognition of a simple philosophy in this industry, and that is the simple truth that some things that the company tells him to do are suggestions, and not necessarily policies. It then becomes that driver's responsibility to make sure that he is doing things in both an efficient manner, and a manner in which it all appears on the up and up. If you are running your truck in a way that is efficient and productive, they are going to allow you to get away with some minor things that might go against what they may suggest to you at times. They love drivers who are getting things done, and they will look the other way when it comes to minor infractions of their most ideal practices when they have a driver who knows how to keep his wheels turning.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

Sleeper Berth:

The portion of the tractor behind the seats which acts as the "living space" for the driver. It generally contains a bed (or bunk beds), cabinets, lights, temperature control knobs, and 12 volt plugs for power.

Dispatcher:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Unholychaos's Comment
member avatar

Usually what I tend to do is show 5-10m on duty when arriving at a customer, remarked as post-trip/tiv and pre-trip/tiv for drop and hooks and CHECK IN (have to physically notate this) for anything live, then go off duty while backing. Staying on duty while backing cost me about 40m one time when I was still figuring it out. Once I'm on the door and waiting to be loaded/unloaded, I'm usually logging off duty (but I will now change that to sleeper knowing this rule). When I'm ready to leave I show 5m on duty remarked TIV, although I'm pretty sure it automatically kicks me on the drive line before the 5m locks in.

What am I doing wrong, good, what should I change?

Drop And Hook:

Drop and hook means the driver will drop one trailer and hook to another one.

In order to speed up the pickup and delivery process a driver may be instructed to drop their empty trailer and hook to one that is already loaded, or drop their loaded trailer and hook to one that is already empty. That way the driver will not have to wait for a trailer to be loaded or unloaded.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Patrick C.'s Comment
member avatar

When I was in the military working and crewing on Blackhawk helicopters we used to have a few sayings. They are kinda applicable here.

1). 'There are 3 ways of doing things. The right way, the wrong way and the Crewchief way.' Basically you have the right way of following the book. You have the wrong way of just doing your own thing and finally the Crewchief way. The Crewchief way may take shortcuts and may not follow the book step by step, but you never do anything that is unsafe. You accomplish a task in the most effective and efficient way while maintaining safety.

2) Fly what you want; log what you need. Basically get whatever tasks accomplished that needs accomplished. Log what is necessary or what is needed.

Drive Safe and God Speed.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

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