You Run Out Of Time On 14 Hr. What Do You Do?

Topic 21198 | Page 2

Page 2 of 3 Previous Page Next Page Go To Page:
Turtle's Comment
member avatar

I just read the entire thread that you provided a link to G Town, and I must admit I'm a little confused now. I remember reading it back then, but have since forgotten all about it.

Prime still sends that exact same qc message laying out the do's and don'ts of off-duty driving. And I was specifically told by a lady in logs that I was okay in doing it the way I described. At this point however, until I see some concrete wording by the FMCSA supporting Prime's position, I won't be using the off-duty driving in this fashion. The risk simply isn't worth the few minutes gained.

In reality, 99% of the time I sit right at the receiver after unloading and wait for a new dispatch, which usually comes within 15 minutes.

Sorry for straying off topic haha

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Patrick C.'s Comment
member avatar

Here is the skinny of Off Duty Driving.

To use Off Duty Driving (Personal Conveyance) there are 5 criteria that MUST be met.

1) Personal Conveyance - The reason for the trip must be personal in nature. Food, Shopping, Shelter (think Hotel/Motel) and/or home.

2) Intent to Return - You must intend on returning to the EXACT location you began Off Duty Driving. There is pretty much only 1 caveat to that. You are at Home and are sent a dispatch while at home. You do not have to return to where Off Duty Driving began; however, you must be on duty when leaving your home.

3) Not Dispatched - You must not be dispatched (instructed) to go to where you are going.

4) Unladen - You must not be laden. There is no specific guidelines whether this means deadhead or bobtail. It is up to the interpretation of the DOT officer.

5) Reasomable Distance - The length of your travel Off Duty must not exceed the distance (time) that would allow some to drive to AND from the location traveled to and allow adequate rest during the span of 1 10 hr break. Since humans are generally regarded as needing 8 hrs of rest, you can drive 1hr to and 1 hr back from the location travelled to.

Clear as mud? Good. Remember ALL 5 CRITERIA MUST BE MET!!!

Drive Safe and God Speed

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

Deadhead:

To drive with an empty trailer. After delivering your load you will deadhead to a shipper to pick up your next load.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Turtle errs on the side of caution:

At this point however, until I see some concrete wording by the FMCSA supporting Prime's position, I won't be using the off-duty driving in this fashion. The risk simply isn't worth the few minutes gained.

I think that is the best decision. I have yet to read anything tangible that supports what your log department is suggesting as legal. And I have looked...

I've heard (not recently) other false statements made by former Swift DMs that were just as questionable, like using "safe haven" to extend the 11 or 14. I have always said; "you gotta be your own advocate, realizing the responsibility and accountability involved with decision making".

Safe travels.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Matt M.'s Comment
member avatar

I'm certain Prime' s rules for personal conveyance have been vetted by MODOT. We used to have 2 hours, but Prime got busted in an audit for knuckleheads abusing the crap out of it driving to the next dispatch, driving laden, etc etc... If you aint cheating you aint trying I guess. Now it's 1 hour, and rest assured you will be messaged the rules if you use it.

That's not to say you won't get a ticket or warning for using it, it's such a vague rule (look at people arguing over what "laden" means for example) like many in our industry, so law enforcement will interpret however they want. Pretty safe in Missouri though.

I used it all the time when I was solo, to move from a receiver to a truck stop. It's nice to have access to bathrooms, showers, food, etc... If I get ticketed, eh, hopefully Prime will pay it. I've enjoyed the benefits of using it many times.

I do know someone they paid an overweight violation for that he got from a repowered load. I was there for the transload to get him legal. I would think they would support someone if they were abiding their rules. They have always done me right at least.

Regardless, to the OP, I would get direction from your company on how they want that very common issue handled.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Matt wrote:

That's not to say you won't get a ticket or warning for using it, it's such a vague rule (look at people arguing over what "laden" means for example) like many in our industry, so law enforcement will interpret however they want. Pretty safe in Missouri though.

Explain what is vague about it and how is it safe in Missouri? Please enlighten us.

Personal conveyance is NOT driving to a TS under a load when logged off duty, especially if you are out of hours. Read what Patrick wrote in his reply and the link I put in one of my replies.

There is nothing vague about it.

Matt M.'s Comment
member avatar

Matt wrote:

double-quotes-start.png

That's not to say you won't get a ticket or warning for using it, it's such a vague rule (look at people arguing over what "laden" means for example) like many in our industry, so law enforcement will interpret however they want. Pretty safe in Missouri though.

double-quotes-end.png

Explain what is vague about it and how is it safe in Missouri? Please enlighten us.

Personal conveyance is NOT driving to a TS under a load when logged off duty, especially if you are out of hours. Read what Patrick wrote in his reply and the link I put in one of my replies.

There is nothing vague about it.

Who said anything about being under a load? The op asked about being unloaded at a receiver, primes rules state you can't be under a load, what is it with the straw man arguments? Love the hostility too "please enlighten us."

It is vague, in the link you gave there is argument over whether unladen means bobtail or an empty trailer (I believe the latter). The fmcsa doesn't have q&a posted on the subject due to how succinct the regulation is.

As for my comment about safe in Missouri, it would follow my assertion that MODOT has vetted Primes rules for allowing personal conveyance, they do work with our log department and vice versa, and I'm sure it was cleared with them when the hammer came down regarding prime drivers abusing it when they made changes a couple years ago. Safe and legal is pretty much a mantra with our dispatchers even, let alone that group. I'm inclined to believe they are in the right on this.

As far as Patrick's post, most of that sounds pretty reasonable but rule number 2 is not accurate. DeLorenzo himself has said explicitly that's not the case. And aside from that point, my use in leaving a receiver to head to a t/s pretty much fits the other guidelines there.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Dispatcher:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Delo:

Delo products are designed for on- and off-road applications ranging from bus and truck transportation to construction, mining, agriculture, and power generation.

Across industries, Delo's premium lubricants deliver world class protection, performance, and maximum operational reliability in a wide range of operating conditions

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Matt wrote:

Who said anything about being under a load? The op asked about being unloaded at a receiver, primes rules state you can't be under a load, what is it with the straw man arguments? Love the hostility too "please enlighten us."

There is nothing hostile about what I asked you to do or the need to escalate the conversation into a contentious exchange. At least where I come from use of the word "please" should make that fairly clear. If you think this is a straw man argument then why did you reply? I don't have the time, inclination or intent to get involved in the petty and trivial, so please don't make that assumption on my behalf. I replied directly to you because you obviously have a degree of experience that might benefit others.

Your explanation and clarification is understandable and clear. I stand corrected; there is a level of ambiguity that creates confusion around the word laden or unladen. I no longer disagree with you on this point. Every definition of unladen I have read defines it as an adjective meaning without load. Until the governing bodies change the language to specify either bobtailing or with an empty trailer, this will continue to be a risk (as you pointed out) and confusing.

Since many of us do not have the benefit of a line 5 like Prime, such as I cannot "log off-duty driving". I honestly do not know what other companies allow this.

Until the wording of the conveyance law is changed, I still discourage any driver from driving while off-duty. For most of us, the elogs will automatically put you on the drive line as soon as the speed is above 15mph and/or driving for more than 15 minutes.

Matt's advice of checking with each company on their policy is perhaps the most prudent approach to this.

So back to you Matt... There is an active thread called "Got Pulled Over". If you have the time I'd like you to read it and comment on it since it involves a fellow Prime driver dealing with this exact scenario. Thank you.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Elogs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Turtle's Comment
member avatar

There is a potential new twist to the Got pulled over thread which I am currently seeking some clarification on from the OP.

Mark .'s Comment
member avatar

Thank you to all who responded.

Mark .'s Comment
member avatar

Park on the street if you can (usually won't trip the elogs if you're quick). If you can't, and this is something I've done, go ahead and drive to the nearest safe place to park knowing the elogs will throw you a violation and call your company to explain. They can sometimes remove the violation on their end.

If a company removes a violation, is that legal (what authority does a company have to remove a violation)? Isn't the DOT the only one who can excuse a violation?

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Elogs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Page 2 of 3 Previous Page Next Page Go To Page:

New Reply:

New! Check out our help videos for a better understanding of our forum features

Bold
Italic
Underline
Quote
Photo
Link
Smiley
Links On TruckingTruth


example: TruckingTruth Homepage



example: http://www.truckingtruth.com
Submit
Cancel
Upload New Photo
Please enter a caption of one sentence or less:

Click on any of the buttons below to insert a link to that section of TruckingTruth:

Getting Started In Trucking High Road Training Program Company-Sponsored Training Programs Apply For Company-Sponsored Training Truck Driver's Career Guide Choosing A School Choosing A Company Truck Driving Schools Truck Driving Jobs Apply For Truck Driving Jobs DOT Physical Drug Testing Items To Pack Pre-Hire Letters CDL Practice Tests Trucking Company Reviews Brett's Book Leasing A Truck Pre-Trip Inspection Learn The Logbook Rules Sleep Apnea
Done
Done

0 characters so far - 5,500 maximum allowed.
Submit Preview

Preview:

Submit
Cancel

Join Us!

We have an awesome set of tools that will help you understand the trucking industry and prepare for a great start to your trucking career. Not only that, but everything we offer here at TruckingTruth is 100% free - no strings attached! Sign up now and get instant access to our member's section:
High Road Training Program Logo
  • The High Road Training Program
  • The High Road Article Series
  • The Friendliest Trucker's Forum Ever!
  • Email Updates When New Articles Are Posted

Apply For Paid CDL Training Through TruckingTruth

Did you know you can fill out one quick form here on TruckingTruth and apply to several companies at once for paid CDL training? Seriously! The application only takes one minute. You will speak with recruiters today. There is no obligation whatsoever. Learn more and apply here:

Apply For Paid CDL Training

About Us

TruckingTruth was founded by Brett Aquila (that's me!), a 15 year truck driving veteran, in January 2007. After 15 years on the road I wanted to help people understand the trucking industry and everything that came with the career and lifestyle of an over the road trucker. We'll help you make the right choices and prepare for a great start to your trucking career.

Read More

Becoming A Truck Driver

Becoming A Truck Driver is a dream we've all pondered at some point in our lives. We've all wondered if the adventure and challenges of life on the open road would suit us better than the ordinary day to day lives we've always known. At TruckingTruth we'll help you decide if trucking is right for you and help you get your career off to a great start.

Learn More