Comments By Rayzer

I do have to say that when you are an O/O, you have a lot more freedom with how you are dispatched, where you run, when you run, and time off during holidays, and more. I do think that running as a team with a spouse/significant other where all the money is going into one bank account has more potential for success than someone running solo. As a solo driver you only have the one income, obviously, but as a team...wow! This is especially good if you have the patience to do this right and take the time, like you said, to be team company drivers first to save up the money. Just keep in mind that running as a team you are going to be knocking down some serious miles per year, probably over 200k. That means you probably won't, or maybe I should say, shouldn't get too old of a truck because even though you might be a mechanic or mechanically inclined, you don't want to be spending time that could be behind the wheel in some truck stop parking lot working on a truck.

I also have two different scenarios that you should consider. First, I have a friend that is a company team driver for Old Dominion and although he is teaming with a guy they found for him to team with and not his spouse, he still is knocking down a huge chunk of change. I don't know about last year, but two years ago his gross pay on his W-2 was just over 89K. His team partner was less because he had less experience, but I don't know how much. They have several husband-wife teams that do very well as company drivers with great benefits and several that he has talked to are on dedicated runs and home weekly. Benefits is also something you might want to consider, including 401k's (free money because of the company match). If you choose O/O, since you are considered self employed, you will not receive nor be eligible for company benefits and you will have to purchase that on your own.

Second, I have another buddy that really had a bad stroke of luck about 3 years ago. He moved his family from Portland, OR area to Denver, CO area where the company he was leased to was based so he could be home more. He bought a house and then not long after he lost the engine in his truck and was still upside down on the loan. He had tapped all his resources moving and buying the house so he lost the truck to repo. Almost immediately his now ex-wife announced that she was done with the marriage and within a couple weeks moved back to the Portland area leaving him to deal with the house. He also moved back to the Portland area to be around his kids and family and had to do a short sale on his house. It was a mess and the poor guy ended up having to file bankruptcy to get relief from everything that had snowballed.

So, after all that he tried working a local job for a while and it was horrible for him. He was completely broke and didn't know what he was going to do. He ended up going to Prime, Inc. out of Springfield, MO and leased a truck from them. I thought he was crazy because all the bad stuff I had heard over the years, but in a short time he has turned everything around and has a large chunk of change in the bank. After he explained how everything worked over there, I'm not so sure I wouldn't be interested in doing the same. There is no risk when leasing a truck from them. You get a new truck O/O spec'd with an APU and when you consider what you would pay for a new truck if you were to go buy it and finance it. The big difference is that if you decide that you don't want to, or can't for some reason, you can walk away from the lease without a negative mark on your credit. They also have teams there. I don't know you or your partner's situation, but if you need training they also provide that and will pay you to go through their training.

I know you have a lot of people that slam Prime and any other lease from a company, but again, every person has to do what is right for them and not everyone's situation is the same, so don't listen to the hearsay and negative comments. Always get the information first hand from the company you might be interested in. I can tell you for a fact that there are also Prime drivers that slam the company and the money they charge for stuff, but if you really got to digging into their situation you would probably find that they are running their business the way they should be. If you are ever interested in getting more info on Prime, I could put you in touch with my buddy and he could give you the rundown on it. If you were to talk to him you would find out that he is a number cruncher and is usually right about stuff. I have never ever caught him in a lie or anything close to it. He's just an ex-Marine that is a pretty straight shooter...no pun intended.

I know I am rambling a lot, but I just hated it when I was searching for information about becoming an O/O and couldn't get anyone to give me good information. So, I hope this is helping at least a little. I know I haven't even touched the tip of the iceberg, but hopefully it will get you thinking of more questions. Oh, one more thing you might consider if you are already trucking it up as a company driver. Run your company truck like it were your own. Keep track of the fuel mileage every single time you get fuel and see how you are doing and keep track of all your miles. Then every week figure out how much you would have made if you had been an O/O and how much you would have paid out. That may help show you how you would do as an O/O.

I personally like being an O/O better than a company driver. I did "net" more money than I could make being a company driver, but my truck was paid for. But there are a ton of reasons that one could be better for you over the other. Are you a self motivated person? Are you an optimist, or a pessimist? Are you mechanically inclined? Do you have a rather significant emergency fund? What type of freight are you going to haul? What part of the country do you plan on running? You mentioned team, have you teamed with this person before? Will you be buying the truck and then paying your partner a set wage or cpm, or will you both go in on buying the truck together and sharing all expenses (that can get scary, especially if you find that you are no longer compatible as team drivers and decide to go your separate ways)?

Like I said, there are a ton of reasons why you should be an O/O and a ton more you shouldn't. They both come with their own problems. The one thing I have always suggested to someone that asked me if they should become an O/O is that I HIGHLY, HIGHLY, recommend you don't even consider becoming an O/O until you have a rather large emergency fund in place, especially if you are buying a used truck. For example, I bought a used fleet truck a few years ago and after paying cash for the truck I had just a tad over $18k for an emergency fund. The truck had around 492k on the odometer. So with the mileage and the emergency fund I thought I was golden and would be doing great. I knew I could expect some repairs, but my mistake was thinking that they would all happen over time...not all at once. I had a warranty on the engine, turbo, injectors, water pump, and transmission. On top of that, I thought I would be adding money weekly to my emergency fund as time went on...HA!...but you have to be up and running in order to be making money, which I wasn't.

Every time I had a breakdown it was something that was not covered by the warranty. I would call a shop (Freightliner, Detroit, mom 'n pop shops, etc.) to see if they could help me after I gave them the code or the symptoms. I quickly found out that the standard canned response was, "I don't know. The only thing we could do after you get it here is to hook it up to the computer." Then I would either have to limp it in or have it towed in to the closest shop. Then the fun begins. After you show up at the shop you get to hear them tell you how backed up they are and how many mechanics are out sick and on vacation and just quit without notice and that it probably won't be until tomorrow afternoon before they can get your truck in to hook it up to the computer. There is a key piece of information that they fail to include in that last statement though, which I will get to here in a second. So, you think, well, I have to have it looked at so...okay...go ahead and sign me up for tomorrow afternoon. So you sit the rest of the day and into the next day and they finally call you and tell you, "We hooked your truck up to the computer and it looks like your "such-and-such" part is bad and needs replaced." Okay, how long will that take? "Well, we don't have that part on hand so we will have to order it. It will take three days to get here, or you can pay for overnight shipping and we can have it by 10:00 AM tomorrow. However, here's the part they failed to mention that I warned you about. "Well, we are really backed up because we are down three mechanics because of vacation, sickness, etc., so, once we get the part, we won't be able to get your truck in the shop until the following day." UGHHH!!! Why didn't you mention that when I checked in?

Well, now you start thinking about it and you have already spent so much time sitting there that you might as well just bite the bullet and get it done. They know this and that's the reason they don't mention that there is a certain amount of time to "Look" at your truck and then another certain amount of time to order parts, because they never have the part you need, and then more time to get your truck back in the shop to fix it. They don't tell you this at check-in because they don't want you leaving and going somewhere else and figure that once you've wasted so much time there that you won't want to go somewhere else and risk starting all over again. Nobody wants to help you anymore because there is no money to be made by fixing your truck over the phone.

Anyway, every time I came out of the shop I was heading right back in for a completely different non-warranty breakdown. Only one time did I have a warranty related problem with the transmission and it was a big dollar repair...nearly three grand. Thank god for that warranty! However, I still lost eight days waiting for diagnosis, parts, more parts because they ordered, or were sent the wrong parts, and two days to tear down transmission, repair, and reassemble. Needless to say, I went through that emergency fund in six months. I was so discouraged by that time that I was at my limit for patience.

Some will say that because of electronic logging that you can't make money anymore. For me, I find that is false. Once I finally got all the bugs worked out of my truck I was running good and made great money - great for me anyway, but again, my truck was paid for.

Even after all that I still would rather own my own. You just have to decide which problems you want to live with. It's all mindset, patience, dedication, and money.

Good luck with whatever you choose.

Okay, Brett, this is the last post I'm going to make on this subject (I can already hear the cheers ) and just accept that we can all agree to disagree. If those of you that are willing to let the government, companies, or insurance companies have their way with you just because you feel that it is their right and that you have none because you are ONLY an employee then there is nothing I can say or do to change your minds. I don't understand that mentality, but to each their own.

I would love to see the trucking industry stand together as a whole just once sometime during my career, however I don't see that happening...ever, those days are gone. I also wonder what has to happen in our industry to make drivers realize that we don't have to keep taking all the crap that keeps raining down on us. For the past few years it just doesn't seem to stop. It's one regulation after another with no end in sight. We are constantly told that "Without trucks, America stops," but so many of us act like there is nothing we can do and that we have to keep rolling with the punches. Just like the Restart rule is in jeopardy AGAIN of being reinstated. That has to be one of the stupidest rules I have ever heard of in my life, yet here we are again with it staring us right in the face. It's enough to drive a preacher to drink.

And to answer your question if I would take full responsibility for anything that happens if they took the camera out of my truck, the answer is no, why should I? I'm not compromising my belief for anyone and if it ever came down to being mandatory then I am far along enough in my career that I'm comfortable and would retire without worry. However, I would like to have the money in the bank to pay for my grandson's college without having to dip into my retirement, but if it happens then it happens and my grandson better get a job is all I can say.

So, with that being said, I am done with this topic. I hope all you guys and girls have a great weekend and be safe out there.

Rayzer, even that name calling isn't new. It doesn't really advance the conversation.

You describe yourself as "Experienced Driver" but with 7 posts so far. Sure, anyone can sign on here and share their experience. I appreciate that. Who do you drive for? How long have you been driving?

Doesn't your company have policies you need to follow, that you don't like but you need to do if you want to keep your job?

First off, I didn't call one single person on here a name. I only mentioned two terms that "our" industry uses on a daily basis. If you or anyone else found that offensive then I apologize.

Secondly, I don't get the connection with calling myself an Experienced Driver but with only seven posts. Are you guys wanting to know if I'm an experienced driver out on the road, or are you wanting to reserve that term for how long I've been a member on the TT site? I assumed you wanted to know my experience as a truck driver and not how long I have been on here.

But, like I said a few posts ago, I'm four months away from twenty years driving and of course my employer has policies that I have to follow in order to keep my job. And if one or more of them ever contradict my beliefs then I will politely part ways and either find another driving job or find another type of work altogether.

So, is that what you meant or did what you say go right over my head and I missed something?

For the record, I think a company is perfectly within their rights to install cameras in their work spaces, including trucks. In the case of trucks, those cameras should be "off" when the driver goes off duty.

The keyword there is "should" be off. In this modern day of computer hacking nothing is safe. And on top of it people are just weird. Just because you have a boss it doesn't mean he/she doesn't fly a freak flag and just because they tell you that they can't see anything unless "an event has occurred" doesn't mean that they can't access your camera at any time of the day or night, on duty or off.

Look at the Xbox Kinect camera that hooks up to your Xbox. Supposedly it was only used with certain games that were designed to work with Kinect. Turns out that these freaks were hacking into the Kinect camera connected to people's Xbox and watching them in their own home.

And to prove my point about people being freaky weird all you have to do is turn on the TV and you will see that probably 80% of the programming is what? Yep, you guessed it, reality TV. People just love watching people, especially when the person(s) being watched don't know they are being watched.

Wow, according to that video, it'll see every time I have to rearrange my privates...

Haha - well, that's what apparently what the majority want, or are willing to accept because they've been told it is happening.

Sadly you are probably right, especially this day and age where nobody wants to stand up for what's right. The new breed out here finds it easier to just sit back and do nothing. Kind of sheds light on the term "steering wheel holder" and "sheeple".

Rayzer rants:

Who said we had to be doing anything that we don't want our boss to see? I just don't want a camera stuck in my face all day long while I'm working. If they can't figure out what happened with witness statements, nearby cameras (freeway, businesses, etc.), my forward facing camera, the ECM, and whatever else they have at their disposal, then they (the investigators) should probably look for another line of work.

The all-powerful player here is the insurance companies. They don't want to go digging around for evidence when a simple installed camera get-up will answer all their questions. If they say "cameras!" the truck companies will answer "Color or black/white?" And the cameras are about as intrusive at the Pre-pass on the windshield.

Not to worry about watching you change your underwear - they only record & store those 10 seconds before & after an "event".

The following link to a YouTube video shows what this camera can see. Although it is a day cab, I'm pretty sure they don't make one camera just for day cabs and one for OTR cabs. I guess anyone into voyeurism might not mind this intrusion, but I do and hope I never have to deal with this before I retire. For some reason I couldn't get this link to work with the Link button above, but here is the full link if you are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=20&v=EvsTl8B0lxI

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about this whole driver facing camera deal and just making a mountain out of a molehill. But, to me It just seems like a slap in the face after 20 years of driving without so much as an overweight ticket and I've only been involved in two non-preventable minor accidents that were not my fault and I was never cited for in any way. One, a kid rear-ended me while sitting still in a traffic jam (he wasn't hurt, but was cited), and the second was a guy who spun out during a snowstorm while we were doing approximately 30 mph and he hit me (again, he wasn't hurt, but was cited). I take great pride in closing in on three million accident free miles, especially while a large portion of my career has been spent driving in the northeast and all without the help of a camera stuck in my face.

I think, other than the privacy issue, the next biggest issue I have with driver facing camera's is the blatant discrimination of only putting them in trucks. Why not cars, or at the very least ALL problem drivers that are habitual offenders, i.e. drunk drivers, reckless drivers, etc? Oh yeah, because the entire country would go insane and start a nationwide riot because they would claim privacy issues. The ACLU would be up in arms. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton would find some reason to object and the list goes on and on. However, since it's just a bunch of truck drivers nobody cares and we will just sit back and let it happen like everything else that has had an impact on our industry.

One other thought before I quit my "rant". How many of you that have no problems with these driver facing cameras also have no problem with either not receiving detention or only getting $10-$12 per hour after 2-3 hours? Have any of you ever thought that if we were paid by the hour instead of by the mile that drivers might not feel the need to rush around taking unnecessary risks dodging in and out of traffic, running yellow lights, etc., while driving and that the cameras might not even be necessary?

You are ALWAYS going to have that select few that need to have their every move scrutinized, but I just don't think the majority should have to pay the price for those few. I would much rather see technology implemented into EVERY vehicle that would jam cellular signals unless you were dialing 911.

Belluavir believes:

here are plenty of companies that indulge this preference ....

They might "indulge" - until the insurance company, or the State, tell them to quit indulging and get the cameras installed already.

And besides, just what are you doing that you don't want your boss to see you do just before your accident? I thought "observant driver" would be a good thing to be doing just before the fender bender.

Who said we had to be doing anything that we don't want our boss to see? I just don't want a camera stuck in my face all day long while I'm working. If they can't figure out what happened with witness statements, nearby cameras (freeway, businesses, etc.), my forward facing camera, the ECM, and whatever else they have at their disposal, then they (the investigators) should probably look for another line of work.

This is the way it always starts. The government slaps some small law down that doesn't really matter that much and everybody is saying, "What's the big deal?" Then, after the dust settles, they add another small law that by itself really isn't much, but when you add it on to the first law it's a little bit bigger deal. Then they keep adding all these small laws that when combined start gaining momentum and turns into one big law that leaves everyone standing around scratching their heads wondering what just happened. I know this sound like paranoia to some, but mark my words, this WILL eventually come back to bite us in the ol' keister.

Since the cab of my truck is my home, workplace, dining facility, etc., I just think this crosses the line and opens way too many doors in the future for the government to build on. The next thing you know they will want to put a camera in every room of your home. Are you okay with that, too? Because besides, what would you possibly be doing that you wouldn't want big brother to see? How about your personal vehicle(s)? Or maybe just the personal vehicle(s) of truck drivers just because we have a CDL and "we should be held to a higher standard." You okay with that, too? Where does it stop? How about the bathrooms, or the shower rooms because Lord knows us crazy truck drivers might be building a weapon of mass destruction in there since we can't do it in our trucks anymore because of the cameras there.

We had a discussion about this not too long ago. It got pretty intense. Some folks just don't mind it while others refuse to work for a carrier that uses them. They see it as an invasion of their personal space. To each his own. I personally have my own dash cam because it's the smartest investment you can make.

Now as far as this VHS thing goes. I have no clue what that even is so I can't help you with that. Errol was around back when Ox carrages were the main transportation so I'm sure he can help you with any ancient technology like the VHS.

Yep, I'm one of those that does not want a camera facing me all day/night. I don't like it, I don't agree with it, and think that would be the one thing that would push me out of trucking. More a matter of principle than anything. As for the outward facing camera(s), I have no problem whatsoever with those. A couple months ago I purchased my own camera and have it aligned so that it catches not only the road in front of me, but also both fender mirrors that shows down both sides to about the back of the sleeper area so that you can plainly see if I drifted into another lane or not. It's really pretty cool.

I know that this could be used to screw myself, but if I am in the wrong, then I am in the wrong. However, if I am in the right I want proof of it. Too many people/witnesses only see what they want to see or are fuzzy on the events once they start talking to the police or insurance guys. I've seen this first hand when people involved in an accident didn't even know what direction they were traveling...kind of weird, but it is what it is.