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That's not true Mark. We like to deal with facts in here. We believe facts - that is what we want to believe. So far you have been completely void of facts. You've done a lot of talking as if you know what you are talking about, but it's pretty obvious to us you like to believe your own ideas while not even putting them into practice. Nobody with any decent business sense manages to put back the type of money you are talking about and then risks it all on a one truck Owner/Operator gig where they are going to primarily be cherry picking the loads they want to run whenever they feel like taking a little time away from their hobbies.

That's why I like this forum for it's contrast to other forums. As your experienced words do carry weight. But from what I have seen, so far, from others business experiences and my own. It probably isn't in the successful OO's interest to reveal their methods to a public forum in the event they only invite competition at their own demise. Especially if they are borrowing money to finance their own operations.

Tractor Man, I don't know much about Mark M, but I certainly don't believe he's an O/O. If he is, he's very new to the game. His comments make it obvious.

Yes, I'm not an O/O, in fact, not even a company truck driver. But I have had great success in building my own small businesses in the past. Having been retired for over the past ten years and no longer interested in going back to those business models from the past, I am about to set out on a new path in truck driving. Hope to learn a lot at the companies expense the first year or two, then reevaluate my options. I have read about other successful but mostly not so successful OO's on other forums. The industry is definitely stacked against the small operators. And yes, I agree, that it may be more wise to seek different passive/low active investments as you achieve wealth. Let's just see, should be fun!!

These type comments are always amusing to me. If anybody can show me some hard evidence that they now get to work less, make more money, and have "much greater" time off because they've become an O/O, I'd be reallly impressed. Unfortunately no one has ever been able to produce that evidence.

You don't necessarily have to both make more money and have more free time to consider OO a success. One should probably go into being an OO for the freedom of schedule/free time and return on investment as a solo driver. To grow in size/scale would be a far different pursuit.

As far as evidence, probably because there are far, if not few who have to discipline to achieve self sufficient wealth while continuing on as an OO. And even if someone came onto this forum to describe their prescription to success, few would believe it and throw doubt on those findings. In other words, your going to believe what you want.

We've got a few really talented O/O's in here as members. If any of what Mark M is saying here were true, these guys would confirm it for us. I've been in business for years - it always requires more work and more sacrifice than being an employee. There are no shortcuts to wealth or achieving a higher income.

Don't deny that the pursuit of maximum return and growth does require more sacrifice, especially in time. But that's not what I'm prescribing as a well off OO.

True, there are no short cuts, you need to save and work hard to get to a lifestyle of allowing money to work for you. But it does get easier as you achieve wealth.

Hummm... I'm not convinced these guys get greater time off to pursue other interests/hobbies unless those hobbies are fixing their own truck and doing book keeping.

In truth, like a lot of new small business owners. Most folks will fail at their new business for many different reasons. Thus my "fool proof" method of success or at the worst breaking even. Which is the only scenario outcome that would allow me to start up a new business.

Translation: You'd better have considerable savings put aside. Why? Because you're gonna need it.

More so, you should have enough to finance your entire startup with cash. You should have zero debt obligations including your home and have additional savings. You should have at least a couple years of driving experience.

By being in a position of standing, you will not be under pressure to except work that doesn't fit your model of economics. It's about quality, not quantity, as an OO. As long as your return on your investment, your time, exceeds an alternative passive model, you will happily succeed and grow the business thru the inevitable cycles. This would be a choice of life style for those who value their free time as much as their return on investment. The most successful investments are those businesses of your own making.

The reason those older guys are going LO/OO (more so OO) isn't only about the money but about the quality of life. As an OO your cherry picking your loads that fit your economics. Your no longer running for quantity but for quality. Meanwhile your time off is much greater to pursue other interests/hobbies. You only run hard when the economics dictates so. This is not for everyone. You need to be in a position of standing that allows for this unpredictable model of business.

So bottom line. Paid a total of 61 cpm, no insurance benefits. But as an independent business, non company, driver, which includes some tax benefits if so structured. In fact, if done properly, there would be very little tax liability (mostly social security) after full 401k or sep contributions and full per diem. Question, what risks did this driver take on as a lease holder? Was there a risk of high maintenance costs, downtime? What we're the maintenance costs?

Regardless of risk factors, the lack of benefits alone, would make me not want to be a lease holder but a company driver. At minimum, I would need to net a buck a mile for the risks/extra non driving work and lack of insurance benefits. 61 cpm is not worth it.

Yet another good, pretty understandable article from Let's Truck:

https://letstruck.com/blogs/kevins-kommentary/understanding-the-new-tax-laws-how-it-affects-owner-operators-drivers

Rick

Thanks Rick, for the alternative sources. Glad you investigated further to confirm my own findings.

In this case, the per diem concerning driver benefits, tax wise, is a personal decision outside the companies interests. Take the per diem because overall it financially benefits you personally. How or what the company benefits from it, is their concern. But every once in awhile the planets do align and benefit all parties.

Despite taking my company's voluntary per diem, I get whopped hard on tax withholding. Last year I paid in over 10 grand between state and federal.. and that's WITH per diem. I owe my state about $200 and got back ~$2k federal. It works well for me. If I didn't take perdiem I'd be taxed even more and get crazy refunds (overpayment ) of $5-8k. Still trying to get it a bit closer because I don't care to give the feds an interest free loan.

You we're smart to take the voluntary per diem from your company. Yes, you lose out on the FICA, matching company FICA, but you gain on the federal and state income tax. As long as the company is not charging (or excessively) for the per diem, we company drivers would be fools not to take the per diem. The gain is much greater in tax savings than any future SS payments, especially if you we're to invest that money yourself.

Of course the company saves on not having to pay matching FICA but they only get to deduct 80% of these per diem funds for a tax expense. Note, would be 100% on wages. So it's more or less a wash for the company.

If you really wanted to lower your state and federal taxes, maximize your 401K and IRA contributions. Better, in addition, if possible, claim residency in a tax free state and eliminate state taxes.