What Would You Have Done?

Topic 18830 | Page 1

Page 1 of 1
Serah D.'s Comment
member avatar

Long article. Here is the link

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2017/3/21/1645803/-Gorsuch-says-law-gave-a-truck-driver-two-choices-Freeze-or-be-fired-His-fellow-judges-disagreed

Matt M.'s Comment
member avatar

Get fired or freeze to death? Pretty sure most people are going to choose the former, you can always get another job.

I have no idea what all the circumstances were, but I have trouble imagining driving my truck away and abandoning a trailer in an unsecure location.

- Unfreeze the brakes myself and roll. First choice and I would attempt this before anything. Baby sledge to the rescue.

- Stay put and wait for road service to fix the brake issue.

- If not safe to stay in truck, put on airlock and cab to a hotel or wherever.

- As a last resort would I uncouple and drive to safety. If it meant my job, so be it. I'm not dying for a load.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Errol V.'s Comment
member avatar

I saw this Congressional hearing discussion (Gorsuch says law gave a truck driver two choices) on MSNBC. The linked news site is missing some details. (Very similar to many of the stories posted on Trucking Truth.) The choices were either stay in his unheated (?) truck in freezing weather, or drive to safety and get fired.

A further link goes to a new story (same author) we now learn the driver had waited 2 1/2 hours on the roadside, waiting for RoadAssist. Then unhooked the load and drove to safety.

The part that is missing is, what about the truck's cabin heater? The company was TransAm, so it wasn't some O/O who couldn't fix the heater. Although the driver did abandoned his trailer, I do question the firing in these conditions.

Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar

I hate getting part of a story. It's useless. We can't even discuss this without knowing a whole lot more about it.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Serah D.'s Comment
member avatar

Get fired or freeze to death? Pretty sure most people are going to choose the former, you can always get another job.

I have no idea what all the circumstances were, but I have trouble imagining driving my truck away and abandoning a trailer in an unsecure location.

- Unfreeze the brakes myself and roll. First choice and I would attempt this before anything. Baby sledge to the rescue.

- Stay put and wait for road service to fix the brake issue.

- If not safe to stay in truck, put on airlock and cab to a hotel or wherever.

- As a last resort would I uncouple and drive to safety. If it meant my job, so be it. I'm not dying for a load.

Learned a thing or two from your comments. Thank you!!

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Tim F.'s Comment
member avatar

I hate getting part of a story. It's useless. We can't even discuss this without knowing a whole lot more about it.

Brett is correct. But to answer the OP original question...idle the truck and stay warm as long as possible. If he had enough fuel to drive off and come back, then he had enough fuel to stay warm. The story is...the bunk heater was broke...not the cabin heater.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar

Like how idiot Al Franken, is quoted in the linked article.

Now - on the POLITICAL SIDE - Gorsuch is a strict constructionist, which I kind of like (regardless of how this particular case played out). Judges (for the most part) aren't supposed to "interpret law", they are supposed to APPLY IT to the case at hand. Could he have been "compassionate" (emotional)? Sure he could - but he applied the LAW AS WRITTEN. For better or worse, I'd rather have a judge on SCOTUS that doesn't "legislate from the bench". We have enough "activist judges" on the bench that IGNORE the law, and rule how they "feel like" (see Hawaii most recently). Save for a particular law/reg passing "constitutional merit" - the law is the law.

Doesn't TransAm have APU's also (in addition to satellite dishes)? Given fuel content to keep the truck/apu warm - it's a firing offense to leave a box on the roadside for pretty much any company (especially a loaded one). OTOH - a good friend got stuck in middle-o-nowhere PA during the blizzard, APU wouldn't start (neglected to add anti-gel to his southern fuel, then RUN THE APU to get the treated fuel into the APU's fuel lines - was he likely culprit), truck wouldn't stay idling. Suffice to say - he didn't sleep much that night - having to keep getting up to start the truck, and couldn't move the truck from the (closed) K-Mart parking lot, because he was snowed in.

Chances are - the driver in question got an "abandoned equipment" on his DAC , not easy to overcome.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2017/03/14/1643320/-Neil-Gorsuch-to-workers-If-your-boss-says-to-endanger-your-health-do-it-or-risk-being-fired

At 1:18 am — nearly two hours after first calling Road Assist — Maddin was awakened by a cell-phone call from his cousin. The cousin became alarmed by how Maddin sounded; he seemed to be shivering, and his speech was slurred. Maddin straightened up in the cab and noticed that his skin was “crackling” from the cold, his torso was numb, and he couldn’t feel his feet, according to the administrative review board ruling. Maddin hung up with his cousin and called TransAm’s Road Assist unit again. He was told to “hang in there.”

According to the review board opinion, Maddin “tried to follow this suggestion but became fearful of losing his feet, dying, and never seeing his family again.” After another half-hour with no relief, he called his TransAm supervisor, reporting his physical symptoms which, by then, also included trouble breathing. Maddin explained that he wanted to unhook the trailer from the cab and drive to a gas station. The supervisor ordered him, however, according to the review board decision, “to either drag the trailer with its frozen brakes or stay where he was,” warning that the company could be fined if Maddin left the trailer unattended.

As Brett said - the details of the situation were somewhat vague. Pretty sure if the tractor was driveable (and or/the APU was working) driver could have kept the cabin warm enough to not be in danger. Pretty sure the driver (aside from calling) should have communicated his concerns over the QUALCOMM , so they could become a matter of record.

Here is the ACTUAL CASE: https://www.ca10.uscourts.gov/opinions/15/15-9504.pdf

In the case that Gorsuch is being ROASTED FOR - the driver WON, at the ARB and TA appealed. TA's appeal was denied by the court (with Gorsuch dissenting). In reality - this was a WHISTLEBLOWER CASE - based on the fact that the DM told him to "drag the trailer" with frozen brakes. His tanks were empty - BECAUSE HE MISSED HIS FUEL STOP (bad driver). Given the circumstances - this was actually NOT a "whistleblower case" - as the law was written, which is why Gorsuch dissented. Franken is trying to make him out as an "evil man" - because his opinion was BASED ON THE LAW that was being challenged. He was given the OPTION to drag the trailer - not "ordered to" (and ordered to operate the vehicle unsafely, which is what the STAA is all about).

He11 - I'm in Louisville for MATS right now - it's 28 degrees outside, and I don't even want to open my room door and walk 200' to the Dunkin Donuts next door to get coffee. But I might make a run for it.

In the second article - it claims the driver was getting symptoms of hypothermia. I would have dialed 911 - and taken an ambo to the hospital - leaving truck and trailer wherever it was. It seems like the issue here, was leaving the trailer.

Essentially, the ENTIRE TONE OF THE ARTICLE(s) IS FAKE NEWS. Gorsuch didn't tell the driver to FREEZE TO DEATH. He judged whether the case met the merits of the STAA statute, and in reality, under the law - IT DID NOT. The other judges thought it did - and the DRIVER WON THE CASE. The opinion also brings up some interesting issues about PER DIEM - but that's another topic.

The APU/Bunk Heater didn't work - BECAUSE THE DRIVER MISSED THE FUEL STOP AND THE TRUCK WAS OUT OF FUEL. APU fuel lines, don't go all the way to the bottom of the tank - so you don't run the truck DRY using the APU. The driver nearly freezing to death - was THE DRIVERS FAULT.

https://na.thermoking.com/content/dam/tki-na/pdf/Install_Manuals/apu/Installation/TriPac-e%20(Electric)%2054468-19-IM.pdf - page 68

Sorry for the OVERLONG ANALYSIS. I'm kinda angry the way Gorsuch got raked over the coals for this case. So I took a much deeper look at it.

Rick

Qualcomm:

Omnitracs (a.k.a. Qualcomm) is a satellite-based messaging system with built-in GPS capabilities built by Qualcomm. It has a small computer screen and keyboard and is tied into the truck’s computer. It allows trucking companies to track where the driver is at, monitor the truck, and send and receive messages with the driver – similar to email.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Per Diem:

Getting paid per diem means getting a portion of your salary paid to you without taxes taken out. It's technically classified as a meal and expense reimbursement.

Truck drivers and others who travel for a living get large tax deductions for meal expenses. The Government set up per diem pay as a way to reimburse some of the taxes you pay with each paycheck instead of making you wait until tax filing season.

Getting per diem pay means a driver will get a larger paycheck each week but a smaller tax return at tax time.

We have a ton of information on our wiki page on per diem pay

DAC:

Drive-A-Check Report

A truck drivers DAC report will contain detailed information about their job history of the last 10 years as a CDL driver (as required by the DOT).

It may also contain your criminal history, drug test results, DOT infractions and accident history. The program is strictly voluntary from a company standpoint, but most of the medium-to-large carriers will participate.

Most trucking companies use DAC reports as part of their hiring and background check process. It is extremely important that drivers verify that the information contained in it is correct, and have it fixed if it's not.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

APU:

Auxiliary Power Unit

On tractor trailers, and APU is a small diesel engine that powers a heat and air conditioning unit while charging the truck's main batteries at the same time. This allows the driver to remain comfortable in the cab and have access to electric power without running the main truck engine.

Having an APU helps save money in fuel costs and saves wear and tear on the main engine, though they tend to be expensive to install and maintain. Therefore only a very small percentage of the trucks on the road today come equipped with an APU.

APU's:

Auxiliary Power Unit

On tractor trailers, and APU is a small diesel engine that powers a heat and air conditioning unit while charging the truck's main batteries at the same time. This allows the driver to remain comfortable in the cab and have access to electric power without running the main truck engine.

Having an APU helps save money in fuel costs and saves wear and tear on the main engine, though they tend to be expensive to install and maintain. Therefore only a very small percentage of the trucks on the road today come equipped with an APU.

murderspolywog's Comment
member avatar

One think I want to put out here is that as truck drivers we are responsible for are own safety. I have not been able to find the actual facts of this case but I have a few questions. First off. He miss his fuel stop why did he not turn around? Or get his company to reroute him to a secondary fuel stop 2. Why did the trailer brakes freeze? My experience with this is that it happens after driving in wet conditions, and then setting the brakes. It can happen to truck brakes as well. A sledgehammer hammer and 3 foot peace of pipe has always broken them loose. So did he park somewhere with low fuel? And set brakes or was there a brake failer on the trailer? 3. If he had progressed to far that he was afraid for his life. He should have run to truck to get it warm. And called 911 because at that point he is not safe to operate a vehicle, he is not think clearly, and his reflexes are slow. 4 did he have winter gear on the truck?

Remember first and foremost YOU are responsible for your safety. That is why you are called a professional.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Page 1 of 1

New Reply:

New! Check out our help videos for a better understanding of our forum features

Bold
Italic
Underline
Quote
Photo
Link
Smiley
Links On TruckingTruth


example: TruckingTruth Homepage



example: https://www.truckingtruth.com
Submit
Cancel
Upload New Photo
Please enter a caption of one sentence or less:

Click on any of the buttons below to insert a link to that section of TruckingTruth:

Getting Started In Trucking High Road Training Program Company-Sponsored Training Programs Apply For Company-Sponsored Training Truck Driver's Career Guide Choosing A School Choosing A Company Truck Driving Schools Truck Driving Jobs Apply For Truck Driving Jobs DOT Physical Drug Testing Items To Pack Pre-Hire Letters CDL Practice Tests Trucking Company Reviews Brett's Book Leasing A Truck Pre-Trip Inspection Learn The Logbook Rules Sleep Apnea
Done
Done

0 characters so far - 5,500 maximum allowed.
Submit Preview

Preview:

Submit
Cancel

Why Join Trucking Truth?

We have an awesome set of tools that will help you understand the trucking industry and prepare for a great start to your trucking career. Not only that, but everything we offer here at TruckingTruth is 100% free - no strings attached! Sign up now and get instant access to our member's section:
High Road Training Program Logo
  • The High Road Training Program
  • The High Road Article Series
  • The Friendliest Trucker's Forum Ever!
  • Email Updates When New Articles Are Posted

Apply For Paid CDL Training Through TruckingTruth

Did you know you can fill out one quick form here on TruckingTruth and apply to several companies at once for paid CDL training? Seriously! The application only takes one minute. You will speak with recruiters today. There is no obligation whatsoever. Learn more and apply here:

Apply For Paid CDL Training