Profile For Paul J.

That sucks. I hope you're all getting detention/layover pay.

Your legal right to privacy only extends to where you have a reasonable expectation of such. When you are on your employer's truck, and they have informed you that there is a camera there, you do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy.

If you are at home, and you have your doors and curtains closed, you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. When you are in your sleeper and you have your curtain closed, you have a reasonable expectation of privacy. That's how it works.

I think this discussion has run its course, but to this I would only respond that a curtain does not guarantee that private conversations or sounds will not be recorded and uploaded.

I, for one, (and alone here, I'm guessing) would love to see an otr driver take this up with a lawyer that specializes in privacy rights. I think it would make a fascinating case.

I tried to bow out of the discussion, but it’s too interesting to look away when you keep it going. So, just a couple quick points. First, much of what you said to me is irrelevant b/c, as I have said, I acknowledge my employer’s right to monitor my job performance with a camera or any other way they see fit. I have no problem with a camera pointed at me while I am working. And, I go home when I go off duty. I don’t live in the truck. I'm involved in this discussion simply b/c it's an interesting topic to me.

Paul, it's easy to see why you're upset about this. You're misguided when it comes to one simple fact - nothing about that truck is yours.

The only thing about this discussion I find upsetting is the blasé attitude many here have about personal privacy when they are off duty. Someone equated wanting some privacy while off duty with doing something wrong. Weird.

You mean living in their truck.

So, if someone else owns a given space, then you have no expectation of privacy there? Really? Can a company put cameras up in the bathrooms and locker rooms at the terminal? Do drivers not have a reasonable expectation of privacy there either?

Why exactly does a company need a camera active and facing the driver when the truck is shut down and the driver is off duty, anyway?

There's an easy fix. The camera could shut down when the driver goes off duty. Or, at least the driver facing camera and audio recording goes dormant while driver is off duty. (Please don't try to tell me that that would be beyond our technology!)

I'm done with this. Sorry to have disturbed you all. Orwell was right. So sad.

The camera faces the driver's seat. If you are sitting there, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. If you want privacy, go into the sleeper berth. The camera does not face there. It's a pretty simple concept.

You obviously have no experience with them. The camera has a very wide view. The entire inside of the cab, and I presume (since i drive a daycab) whatever the curtains allow in view of the sleeper berth are recorded.

The camera faces the driver's seat. If you are sitting there, you have no reasonable expectation of privacy. If you want privacy, go into the sleeper berth. The camera does not face there. It's a pretty simple concept.

Ours face the entire cab area. They've had cases where people had an unapproved pet on board, set off their camera and were forced to get the pet off the truck.

Fair enough, though my point still stands. If you want privacy go in the sleeper lol. The cab is considered your work area.

Agreed. Sleeper is your home. Close the curtains and forget the thing is there.

This whole argument to me raises one simple question every time it comes up.

What do you have to hide?? If it's simply a "privacy" issue, cover the camera with curtains or a hat or whatever, case closed.

But people keep going on about it which leads to the assumption that there is something more going on.

Do you ever have private conversations? Talk about things you would rather some stranger or you boss not be privy to?

Good grief. What is this world coming to?

Paul asks

Are you really okay with the possibility of the camera uploading a clip of you and your husband engaged in a very private conversation or a moment of intimacy?

Unless you do not want to accept everyone else's statements that the camera does not record unless stimulated, you have a problem. Even if you ignore the two others who have said Swift policy is that you can cover the inside lens when you're off duty or on sleeper.

The only time the camera may go off at an inappropriate time is when another truck crashes into yours when it's already rockin'. And I'll bet that coincidence won't happen.

I know full well how the camera can be triggered. I said the possibility of the camera recording a private moment. Pay attention.

So, you all seem to be okay with the very real possibility of such a moment or conversation being recorded and uploaded (either manually, or if your truck is bumped at an inopportune moment). Is there nothing you consider private when living in your truck? When you go in a dressing room of a store, or the bathroom of a restaurant, or a locker room in a gym, or stay in a hotel, do you expect that your conversations and actions not be recorded and viewed or listened to by others?

Cameras are not the devil that everyone makes them out to be, nor are they an "invasion of privacy" that everyone seems to think they are.

I think everyone here accepts them to the extent that they are used to monitor job performance. They become an invasion of privacy when they remain active while facing a driver who is off duty and in his living space. Are you really okay with the possibility of the camera uploading a clip of you and your husband engaged in a very private conversation or a moment of intimacy?

Paul J wants to continue:

Just curious. If yours is off with ignition off, then why do you need to throw a shirt over it when off duty?

Paul I have had 3 different cameras during the last two years (2 were for a beta-test), each operating differently, so I apologize for any confusion I may have created. The version that Swift selected and is installing en-mass, does indeed remain active when the ignition is off. But like I have been harping-on over and over, it will not upload video unless triggered by an event, impact if parked. It is not a real-time data capturing/storage device. As an example: if you are parked for the night, and another vehicle strikes your truck, the impact will likely trigger an upload that will record the incident and capture the offending party.

Paul J wrote this as well:

It seems that swifts policy (allowing you to cover camera while off duty) acknowledges that an active camera facing the driver while off duty is a violation of ones privacy. But, how do you prevent a possible upload of a private conversation while off duty in your living space? Is there some way to block the microphone?

No, it acknowledges covering the in-cab facing camera while off-duty is not a policy violation. That's it. Do you really think the legality of this hasn't already been challenged multiple times? Look up the State of California and how their supreme court ruled on this very question. Regardless, I am not going to get into any debate; legal, ethical, or otherwise about violation of privacy. I am not a lawyer and do not intend to encourage or extend further discussion on an already exhausting, highly misunderstood and controversial subject. For me, and this is where it begins and ends, it's a question of public safety and asset protection; period.

My camera has never been triggered while parked or off-duty. Sure you could probably muffle the speaker with a piece of duct tape, but it's not something that I'd bother to do because when I am off-duty I am usually asleep or not in the truck.

Like "Driver" suggested, lets move on.

You make it difficult to move on when you respond to me with questionable claims such as :

"ITS NOT ON WHEN THE IGNITION IS OFF !!!!"

Or, that the legality of theses issues have been settled by the CA Supreme Court.

I believe that an off duty, otr trucker, whose job, for all intents and purposes, necessitates that he/she reside in their truck/sleeper berth when off duty has a reasonable expectation of privacy while off duty in that space, similar to your expectation of privacy in a dressing room, bathroom, locker room, etc.. Are you saying that the courts have declared that a trucker has no reasonable expectation of privacy when off duty in their sleeper berth? I am happy to drop the subject, but would really appreciate a link or reference in support of this claim.

Sure enough, the light comes on. Did you get any feedback on those times, did anyone want to talk to you about it?

No, my driving was on point at those times. I have had an occasional coachable moment since, though.

My Swift inside camera red light does occasionally come on. I believe that's for its own operation. Once it came on while talking to my DM. I asked her but she had no idea.

I've already stated what I was told by our lead driver. And I've already demonstrated the camera capabilities for remote operation. Not sure why you doubt me, but, whatever. I won't lose any sleep over it.

You bolded this last sentence. "Some" doesn't mean anything unless you know "which". Swift isn't going to hide something like that because if that "secret" gets out, lawyers will jump in. Fast.

I bolded the last sentence b/c it was the relevant part. g-town said remote activation wasn't possible. That sentence states authoritatively that it is.

If you want to live a paranoid lifestyle, well it's a free country. I'd rather just live a clean life and not worry. And instead of cutting down on the Oreos, I'll just pay more attention to the buzz lines.

Paranoid lifestyle? How so? I've presented simple, straightforward facts. No conspiracy theories here.

I don't have a problem with the camera or its remote activation capability. But I drive a day-cab. I would, however, have a problem with it if my truck was also my off-duty living space, as it is for most otr drivers. It's wrong for a video/audio recorder to be "on" when a driver is off duty.

ITS NOT ON WHEN THE IGNITION IS OFF !!!!

In our trucks it is on even with ignition off. The only way to turn it off is to remove all power with the battery disconnect switch.

Just curious. If yours is off with ignition off, then why do you need to throw a shirt over it when off duty?

It seems that swifts policy (allowing you to cover camera while off duty) acknowledges that an active camera facing the driver while off duty is a violation of ones privacy. But, how do you prevent a possible upload of a private conversation while off duty in your living space? Is there some way to block the microphone?

Sure enough, the light comes on. Did you get any feedback on those times, did anyone want to talk to you about it?

No, my driving was on point at those times. I have had an occasional coachable moment since, though.

My Swift inside camera red light does occasionally come on. I believe that's for its own operation. Once it came on while talking to my DM. I asked her but she had no idea.

I've already stated what I was told by our lead driver. And I've already demonstrated the camera capabilities for remote operation. Not sure why you doubt me, but, whatever. I won't lose any sleep over it.

You bolded this last sentence. "Some" doesn't mean anything unless you know "which". Swift isn't going to hide something like that because if that "secret" gets out, lawyers will jump in. Fast.

I bolded the last sentence b/c it was the relevant part. g-town said remote activation wasn't possible. That sentence states authoritatively that it is.

If you want to live a paranoid lifestyle, well it's a free country. I'd rather just live a clean life and not worry. And instead of cutting down on the Oreos, I'll just pay more attention to the buzz lines.

Paranoid lifestyle? How so? I've presented simple, straightforward facts. No conspiracy theories here.

I don't have a problem with the camera or its remote activation capability. But I drive a day-cab. I would, however, have a problem with it if my truck was also my off-duty living space, as it is for most otr drivers. It's wrong for a video/audio recorder to be "on" when a driver is off duty.

Paul J wrote:

Additionally, the cameras can be remotely activated, so footage can be captured and uploaded without an event occurring. (I have first hand experience with this, but you can check the DriveCam website if you don't believe it.) What if this happens while you are off duty and engaged in a very personal phone conversation (it records audio, too) or what if a husband and wife team are engaged in a moment of intimacy and the camera is remotely activated? Seems like an invasion of privacy to me.

Paul tell us about your first hand experience of a remote camera activation and upload.

I know first hand how the Swift cameras operate and are configured. Involved with two different beta tests. Swift cannot invoke/ activate a remote upload, not possible. Only event triggered .

Lived with a camera for two years and never had anything like that happen. Operate your truck safely and the camera is a non-issue, benign.

I'm a fuel hauler. During my training I was advised by our lead driver that the camera would likely activate randomly for approximately 1 minute intervals and that footage would be downloaded for the purpose of analyzing driving habits. Sure enough, several times over a two week period the camera activated and stayed on for about a minute without any sort of triggering event. It hasn't been remotely activated since i finished training.

But my anecdotal evidence aside, here it is right from the source:

http://www.lytx.com/resource-center/frequently-asked-questions

Q. What can activate the VER to store an event?

A. There are many reasons why a VER will record a video event. Some of these are related to risky driving behaviour, such as abrupt changes in speed or direction, which can indicate erratic or distracted driving; stopping, slowing or changing direction in a very short time could indicate a shock caused by a collision. There are also many regular driving conditions that are unrelated to risky driving that can cause a VER to store an event, including rough, uneven roads, or entering or exiting a drive-way. Additionally, all DriveCam VERs have manual buttons that can be used by the driver to activate the VER in case of an event. Some installations also have remote manual switches that are used to activate a VER remotely.

--------------

So, g-town, it's not only possible, but actually happening out there.

Additionally, the cameras can be remotely activated, so footage can be captured and uploaded without an event occurring. (I have first hand experience with this, but you can check the DriveCam website if you don't believe it.) What if this happens while you are off duty and engaged in a very personal phone conversation (it records audio, too) or what if a husband and wife team are engaged in a moment of intimacy and the camera is remotely activated? Seems like an invasion of privacy to me.

There is clearly no such thing as CDL Mills, yet just about any truck driver can tell you all about them!

This is a strange thread to me. Are you saying there are not schools providing intensive, impersonal, CDL training, for a profit, to a large number of students? Isn't that what is meant by "CDL mill?"

Are you guys opposed to all types of investigative journalism? Or just when it's focused on our industry?

Hello to all my old friends who decided to pop in!! Good to see all of you are doing great!

UPDATE: Got load back home but missed it due to truck being broke down. DEF issues and doser assembly malfunction . Wont be ready till Wed . Because I put my two notice in and my last day fell on Fri. Swift Refuses to pay for my hotel until then , or bus fare back home. The told me "you should have driven back to atlanta when you had the chance " Meaning i should have just done it without the ok i presume , and once you quit the company we aren't spending any money on you anymore". They even told the shop here H&H to not let me back in my truck to get my stuff after today. Another issue is we all know that our trucks is our homes, so I can't possibly grab all of my belongings with just my one travel bag that i have in my truck. Asked about how am i supposed to get all my stuff with just my two hands and my travel bag? they said not their problem figure it out...

I mean.... Damn..... they are treating my like i abandoned their truck and its my fault that it broke down. It seems Swift is acting like a spiteful ex spouse who is trying to get me in anyway they can at the moment . I always been a top notch employee and person to them so i know i don't deserve this.

I don't know trucking truth family , but this is definitely something ill never forget. Send prayers my way.

Damn, that's some bull****. You seem like an upstanding guy that's done things right. Hope you get home soon and that the new job is an improvement for you.

Errol is is just being dramatic:

Paul is about to be disabused:

You won't have summers off {like teachers do}

Hour per hour, the teacher makes more.

I'll try to restrain myself here.

Classroom is generally 6 hours per day. Then there's lesson preparation, faculty meetings and of course, reading and grading maybe 120 student papers.

In the summer teachers get maybe 3 weeks "off". Then there's classes to take, more meetings, though not every day, but too often to get out of town any more.

The teacher goes home every day, has weekends off, more than three weeks in the summer, after a couple years experience spends a lot less time prepping, meetings aren't the much time in the scheme of things, if you're efficient, grading gets done during the day. I've been there. Teachers don't put in as many hours to make the same as a trucker.

I will earn more than most First Year school teachers ...

But you will be working way more than 40 hrs per week and you won't have summers off, so not really the best comparison. Hour per hour, the teacher makes more ... Trucking has other benefits for some, for sure, though.

I can't drive my car up to the school for the classes it seems like everyone is taking a bus.. just a question.

What's the question?

Check the companys' driver turnover rate. If it's near 100%, you might want to keep looking.

So all of em lol

Lol. Yes. If you can get on with one where drivers aren't quiting as fast as they can hire 'em, hang on like grim death.

Check the companys' driver turnover rate. If it's near 100%, you might want to keep looking.