Profile For Greg D.

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    2 months, 2 weeks ago

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Posted:  2 months, 2 weeks ago

View Topic:

Prescription adderall

Greg, your arguments are really convoluted. This conversation started with regard to prescriptions for ADHD, meandered over to people who are deaf or need a service dog, then ended with a series of links to some odd lawsuit pertaining to a woman's shoulder injuries disqualifying her from working for a company.

The only subjects you haven't touched on are the number of legs on a centipede and whether or not light is a particle or a wave.

Focus, man. Focus.

Do you have some actual expertise in this matter or are you just digging up random articles for the sake of arguing in circles?

Perhaps I screwed up on the quoting, I am not use to needing to do raw HTML. I was responding to this statement in a previous quote with recent examples that directly demonstrate that the claim is false.

"And one can go crying all the way to their ADA specialty attorney, but a company's safety and insurance departments can decline to put someone on the road for ANY REASON THEY WANT."

Are you claiming that somehow ADHD medication is not covered under the ADA?

Please explain how responding to ad hominems with actual cites to actual cases is arguing in circles? I haven't seen anything but unfounded opinion in any of the replies.

I am not a lawyer, but do not claim to be an expert in anything besides being someone who personally had to have his physician write a letter to proactively prevent issues before re-entering the industry. In my experience people who claim to be experts typically just don't know enough to know how little they do know.

I do have half a lifetime experience with pseudoscientific and popular media claims about a disability I have.

A very long time ago I sold my families intercity bus company that was in MC174xxx range mostly because the money fell out of that market when transportation for employees tax changed but the concern about the implementation of medicals knowing my position. Not that I was driving much then but I had to have a CDL to deal with sick drivers or when buying a used bus etc...

Before retiring from a good job to go to the Class 8 world I made damn sure I could have a job and stay on my medication and did a lot of research.

FMCSRs 390.3(d) does allow more stringent requirements and there is case law like E.E.O.C. v. J.B. Hunt Transport, Inc., 321 F.3d 69 (2nd Cir. 2003) but with very real restrictions and in that case Hunt probably would have lost had they not hired some drivers who were taking medication on their expanded banned list.

The point being that yes, done properly, a company could ban drivers who took these medications but it is not due to the FMCSA and they can't do it without strong justifications. It is all about risk management and companies have to make a hard decision and they can expose themselves to violating the ADA.

I have no desire to be an unsafe driver or to share the road with unsafe drivers and this discussion should be on a case-by-case basis and with my fairly recent experience most trucking companies do so. There is lots of empirical evidence that these medications do improve driving safety for people diagnosed with ADHD and that would make it harder for a company to hire someone with ADHD but tell them they can't take their medication.

The law is a complicated and difficult subject and it shouldn't be handled lightly. But the FMSCA own Expert Panel argued to keep the exemption for drivers with ADHD despite the risk of schedule II stimulants being abused for others. Telling a driver that they can be hired if they stop their medication would be really really hard to justify as a safety measure with those facts and I personally wouldn't be willing to take the risk of planning I can justify that if an ADA complaint came up.

FWIW I intentionally included a case with a deaf driver with an exemption because the the current standards are an absolute, no discretion prohibition for medical examiners. That driver had an exemption and it resulted ADA lawsuit and litigation costs you money even if you win.

I don't think of myself as a cautious average driver and in fact when if I ever feel "better" than others I assume some confidence needs to be put in check. But I have over a decade on my medication with no increase in dose and with no real side effects and I even take "drug holidays" to check that I am not developing an addiction. That mixed with a good non-industry job record and a spot clean driving record the companies I talked to had no problem with my medication and they were some of the "better" names here.

The point being, if you can meet the suggested criteria in the ME guide and you don't have symptoms with your ADHD that would cause a safety problem you can get a job as there are lots of companies and not all of them want to discard such a huge potential pool of workers without at least giving them a chance.

But yes, my information is anecdotal and based on my due diligence and a plan to be a small MC again. After I get enough recent experience to know the market and get reasonable insurance rates...if it is worth risking my savings.

Best of luck to everyone, I will go back to reading.

Posted:  2 months, 2 weeks ago

View Topic:

Prescription adderall

Yawn...

There is a difference between what is OK with FMCSA (and 5 panel DOT drug tests), and what is acceptable to a company. And a company can test for whatever they want to - over and above what DOT requires.

And one can go crying all the way to their ADA specialty attorney, but a company's safety and insurance departments can decline to put someone on the road for ANY REASON THEY WANT.

It's a tired argument already - especially when ancient posts are resurrected by first time/new posters.

Rick

Like being deaf or needing a service dog?

CRST to Pay $47,500 to Settle EEOC Disability Discrimination and Retaliation

JBS Carriers Sued by EEOC For Disability Discrimination

JBS Carriers to Pay $250,000 and not Resume ErgoMed Screening to Settle EEOC Discrimination Suit

Drivers Management and Werner Enterprises Sued by EEOC For Disability Discrimination In Hiring

If you are a carrier it is probably best to consult legal counsel if you think the DOT medicals except you from the ADA.
Perhaps if you actually could provide evidence you claim is correct?
My intention was to help with this site's stated mission. Hopefully people who s have ADHD, yet still may be great drivers see that through a few responses which seem to take issue with that goal. Old misinformation is still misinformation.

Posted:  2 months, 2 weeks ago

View Topic:

Prescription adderall

Greg wrote:

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Is it legal to use adderall when proscribed it by your doctor? How is adderall viewed in the trucking industry? Also, what companies allow adderall if some dont?

double-quotes-end.png

double-quotes-end.png

While well meaning the information on this thread is incorrect as far as the FMSCA goes. The policy on this is well documented in the FMCSA Medical Examiner Handbook which can be found here:

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.dot.gov/files/docs/mission/advisory-committees/mrb/83401/fmcsamedicalexaminerhandbook.pdf

Decision

Maximum certification — 1 year
Recommend to certify if:
The driver has:

  • Non-disqualifying underlying condition (e.g., adult ADHD).
  • No drug-induced impairment.
  • No tendency to increase the dose.

Unfortunately Mental illness-related stigma is the social norm and even people who mean well and have the best of intentions can tend to spread misinformation so these threads are always challenging. Unfortunately, like most DSM categories ADHD is a spectrum disorder and the reality that the DSM errors towards being descriptive vs diagnostic makes this a challenge for consumers, employers and doctors.

While "Alternative medicine" may work for some people remember it is called "Alternative" because it is not undergone successful medical trials or has failed medical trials. Not all people with ADHD need medication, nor do medications work for all people. Follow the FMSCA recommendations and evaluate the safety and your own symptoms. For some people ADHD results in over-focusing on tasks like driving and them letting their home life, taxes or other obligations fail. If you have ADHD find a good doctor and make an honest evaluation. To carriers, be careful about denying people with ADHD who do not pose a risk and you may want to look up Lisotto v. New Prime which was not ADHD but does mean that you need to balance your companies interests, federal requirements, and the risk of an expensive ADA lawsuit.

You can be a driver if you take dextroamphetamine, methylphenidate, or pemoline but you will need more documentation and you will need to re-certify every year. While the symptoms of ADHD may be disqualifying the medication used to treat them and the underlying condition are Non-disqualifying as explicitly called out in the above linked documentation.

Personally I would prefer to document the results of taking a clinically studied medication that is known to work for an individual rather than risk taking some unknown "alternative" medication or to try and be clean for a single test.

Best of luck and drive safe.

double-quotes-end.png

The FMCSA guidance on this does not require individual companies to adopt this policy.

As with any prescription drug, although it may not be on the list of banned substances, it still may disqualify an applicant from a specific company.

Fact.

I did not say that the FMCSA required companies to accept it, but that it is not a disqualifer.

Companies do increase their exposure to ADA claims by doing so if the treatment is effective and they refuse to hire simply because of a medication that a driver takes without cause.

In fact the medical examiner is not required to accept the use if judgement shows it is unsafe.

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/faq/what-medications-disqualify-cmv-driver If an applicant or employee informs an employer that the medicine is being taken for prescribed medical purposes, and the individual is otherwise qualified for the position, taking adverse action against that individual on the basis of the positive drug screen has ADA implications. While many drivers may not have the will or the funds to file an ADA complaint, the documented policy removes the protections that a simple reading provides. Most companies would probably get away with it but it will be expensive for others. Note I know this is an old thread but it's Google rank is very high.

Posted:  2 months, 2 weeks ago

View Topic:

Prescription adderall

Is it legal to use adderall when proscribed it by your doctor? How is adderall viewed in the trucking industry? Also, what companies allow adderall if some dont?

While well meaning the information on this thread is incorrect as far as the FMSCA goes. The policy on this is well documented in the FMCSA Medical Examiner Handbook which can be found here:

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/sites/fmcsa.dot.gov/files/docs/mission/advisory-committees/mrb/83401/fmcsamedicalexaminerhandbook.pdf

Decision

Maximum certification — 1 year
Recommend to certify if:
The driver has:

  • Non-disqualifying underlying condition (e.g., adult ADHD).
  • No drug-induced impairment.
  • No tendency to increase the dose.

Unfortunately Mental illness-related stigma is the social norm and even people who mean well and have the best of intentions can tend to spread misinformation so these threads are always challenging. Unfortunately, like most DSM categories ADHD is a spectrum disorder and the reality that the DSM errors towards being descriptive vs diagnostic makes this a challenge for consumers, employers and doctors.

While "Alternative medicine" may work for some people remember it is called "Alternative" because it is not undergone successful medical trials or has failed medical trials. Not all people with ADHD need medication, nor do medications work for all people. Follow the FMSCA recommendations and evaluate the safety and your own symptoms. For some people ADHD results in over-focusing on tasks like driving and them letting their home life, taxes or other obligations fail. If you have ADHD find a good doctor and make an honest evaluation. To carriers, be careful about denying people with ADHD who do not pose a risk and you may want to look up Lisotto v. New Prime which was not ADHD but does mean that you need to balance your companies interests, federal requirements, and the risk of an expensive ADA lawsuit.

You can be a driver if you take dextroamphetamine, methylphenidate, or pemoline but you will need more documentation and you will need to re-certify every year. While the symptoms of ADHD may be disqualifying the medication used to treat them and the underlying condition are Non-disqualifying as explicitly called out in the above linked documentation.

Personally I would prefer to document the results of taking a clinically studied medication that is known to work for an individual rather than risk taking some unknown "alternative" medication or to try and be clean for a single test.

Best of luck and drive safe.

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