Comments By Lobos A.

So basically. Student signs up, gets CDL, gets 12 weeks ots talking, then forced into a lease.

Got it.

It's an overly simplified description, but it would be student signs up, student pays for school or enrolls in financing program, student gets CDL, gets 12 weeks OTR training, if they do our financing program then they sign on with a lease and full support services until they pay off the school.

Nothing is forced. Either you pay for the services you're receiving upfront via cash or through a loan or you defer the cost and work through our owner-operator system (which includes a truck lease and full support services such as dispatching, brokering, accounting, safety, compliance, etc.) to pay it over time out of your weekly settlements.

And yes i pay very good attention to everybdetail to evoid being suckered by thieves!!! All the guys currently enrolled and staying in that apartment feel robbed and stuck some have no money to get home and some are stuck in that contract because they got swindled in.. one of the students there was calling his bank attempting to get the loan through them to get out of your 6500 fee.. if a man cant even look another man in the eyes and tell him **** straight hr is a *****.....

Above quote written by Anthony M on page 4.

Do I have a comment? Anthony's comment stands on it's own.

The fact that the comment you quoted is barely legible English aside, it doesn't have anything to do with the comment that was just posted and addressed. Anthony M's comment was also from over 3 months ago and doesn't even say what we supposedly did wrong to cause this reaction. reposting that comment in response to what the thread is discussing now is just trolling.

At any rate, our website is very clear about what you can expect and what you will receive if you go through our program. It has been overhauled and updated since this thread was started to remove any confusing wording and has everything you need to know about the CDL program.

Wildhorsewrangler wrote this about Lobos:

It was not promised as advertised like for instance : Class room instructions , no certified instructor or instructors , it all self taught. They give you a CDL manual to study with that's all you get then after you pass the written exam you wait fourteen days. Then you go with a non certified instructor to learn the basic of backing up, offset backing, and parallel parking after that then go to the DOT test site and take their test. The first time I went I failed because wasn't properly taught those maneuvers the only thing that passed was my pretrip inspection. Now since passed everything this past Friday they want me to become a owner operator. How can I find a company that will help me with my advance training that I can trust? Please point me in the right direction.

I copied this from the diary forum and pasted to the Lobos thread...the saga continues.

1. We do not advertise nor do we claim to have certified instructors of any kind. We advertise that we have an instructor with his CDL who will prepare you to take the CDL driving test in our truck and we will pay for the test fees. We are a course designed to help you obtain your CDL and on the road training to get you started with a CDL career. We give students the tools they need to succeed, but the student must do the work.

2. It is made very clear before a ticket is purchased for the student to travel out to our school that the written test preparation is largely self-study though we do have an instructor available to help with questions and parts where the student might be confused. Once they pass their written test, the DMV has a mandatory 2 week waiting period before the student can take their driving test. During that 2 weeks the student works with our instructor to prepare for that test and they have virtually unlimited practice time in our truck.

3. I see this is one of the students who just passed the first portion of their course and are going into the second portion (12 weeks of on the road training). I can tell you right now that they are not being made an owner operator at this point. They are in 12 weeks of hands on training with another driver working with us and our sister companies. Since they are going through our Vocation Payment Program they will be LATER set up as an owner operator utilizing the services of Lobos and our sister companies once their 12 weeks of training is over. This program delays their tuition costs so they haven't paid a dime on any of the services, food, lodging, travel, etc. they've received thus far. When they start making money through our owner-operator services then a portion of their weekly settlement will be applied towards their tuition and once that tuition is paid then their contract is fulfilled and they are free to pursue whatever path they wish.

Thank you to everyone who has provided constructive criticism and feedback. I've made some immediate changes to the site based on comments made today that should provide some additional details, make some sections less ambiguous, and removes some wording that may have been misleading.

The site needs more updates but hopefully this should help in the interim. I really have wanted to completely remake the website for a while from the ground up with my own wording but unfortunately my other responsibilities at the office have kept me from being able to do so. I've really only had time to edit and add to existing content that was here before I started. I look forward, however, to presenting something completely redone by the new year that will be much better. I really appreciate, again, everyone's suggestions and input.

Lobos A has made the following request:

Again, if I could get some constructive feedback on the website with questions you'd like to see answered on the site please let me know. From what I could gather from this last round of... colorful responses, you'd like to see more information about the contracts. Are there any specific points on that which you would like to see? Do you have any other questions you'd like to see answered on the website?

OK constructive. My previous background was in IT, transportation automation so I think I can speak from some level of experience.

What puzzles me after a cursory review of your website is if you employ professional drivers with experience (by definition over 1 year, your trainers), then why are you asking us to assist you with this (for free I might add)? With that said are you a former or current driver? Do you work with a content advisor who either was or is a professional driver? Honestly your website doesn't reflect either of those things. So right from the start, it lacks a professional driver's perspective and is far too "marketing-centric". Your audience is truck drivers, not professional business people. If you haven't already you should consider hiring a competent content advisor, even if on a consulting basis and be willing to pay for it. They are out there...google it or go into Dice.com.

I have about an hour of free time before I must get rolling so I will attempt to provide some examples of where I see deficiencies and suggested content modification. I will try to be straight with you, but make no mistake, I am only doing this to help current and future student drivers who visit this forum.

I'm asking for feedback as it was this forum that made the complaints about our website. This thread has been full of criticism but a lot of it is constructive. The audience here wants our site to be more informative so I'm asking what do you guys want to see.

My personal background is in social media management, PR, marketing, and project management. However, the content of the website is reviewed and monitored by people within the company who do have several years (over 9) of experience behind the wheel of a semi. I have been given recommendations from them on what content to post. That being said, it obviously is not as inclusive or clear as the population of drivers on this forum would like. So, that is why I am asking what would you guys like to see on the site to feel like things are presented in a way that everyone in this demographic will be able to understand and follow in order to know what they're getting into. The goal of this forum is to help drivers get the most accurate information on elements of the trucking industry; my goal is to recruit drivers and students to work with us. Those two goals are not mutually exclusive. Having the information presented in the way this group of people would like makes things more accurate and clear and in doing so, it helps us avoid situations where we're paying out money for guys to drive for us only to have them decline and leave which wastes our time and resources.

What about my question? Do you let drivers train after only six weeks, as your website claims? If so, what leads you to think that's in any way safe?

Sorry, I missed that one. Yes, you can become a trainer after 6 weeks IF you're coming in with your CDL and your performance shows that you're able to handle being a trainer. Trainers are picked based on their performance, their experience level, and how well they are able to work with their co-drivers. So it's not like you come in, get your CDL, drive for 6 weeks and then boom you're a trainer.

RE: getting your license for free, there are options where you can have a company sponsor your training to where you would get your CDL for free. Here is what is listed on our website: "We also work with other carriers who are willing to take on and sponsor drivers who graduate with high performance from our school. If you qualify for this option and meet the carriers' requirements then you can get your CDL training for free!"

Our guys absolutely can make $1,200 a week right out of the gate. Once you go through the school, if you choose to work with us or finance your school through working with us after graduation (which is interest free by the way as it says on the website) then you start out at 50% of the profit of the truck each week. We had one of our students just make $1,500 last week and he's been graduated a grand total of 3 weeks.

The reason a couple of the numbers are different is because there's different levels of pay depending on if you're at 50% or 75% (as a trainer). One of our top trainers made $1,700 last week and he has been known to clear $2,200 when he's driving really hard.

Our system is setup so that you get out of it what you put into it. If you're with us to drive hard and apply yourself like the two guys I mentioned above, then you'll be very successful. If you're looking for a company to help you feel entitled to hand holding, babysitting, and all expenses paid trips then we're not for you.

While yes, we do have guys who come in to drive with us who do not have a lot of money, it is not our responsibility to help them manage their finances. When someone comes to our office on our dime we expect them to work with us and start driving. If they choose to not go with us then we're out the money we spent on them so we're not going to pay additional money because they didn't plan ahead.

Yes, we do require contracts and yes, that contract does mean that you're liable for your actions behind the wheel. If other companies can afford to reward their drivers for totaling their trucks by giving them new trucks and raises then that's great for them. We, on the other hand, go off of performance and not wrecking expensive equipment.

So yes, if you come out here without any kind of backup plan and you decide you don't want to sign a contract then you may be stuck in Utah. Again, we're not responsible for other people's personal finances. However, our contract allows drivers to back out of the arrangement after only 6 weeks. So, if you're not willing to give us a try for 6 weeks and you cannot afford a trip back home then please, do not apply.

Someone asked "What does financing the schooling and job placement have to do with each other?"

Here is that information right off our website: "Tuition Assistance Program We understand you probably don't have thousands of dollars saved up in the bank for CDL school. We offer a job placement program that allows you to attend our school with no upfront costs! After you complete your advanced skills training we will get you a job with one of our partner companies. You just have to commit to stay with that job for 6 months and your school tuition of $6,500 will be delayed until you start your job! Once you start your job, you will have the potential to make over $1,200 a week right out of graduation. We will work with you to setup a payment plan based on what you make each week so you never pay more than you can afford!"

Another question: "the average driver makes about $35,000 their first year in this industry. Your drivers are going to make double that?"

Absolutely. Again, you get out of it what you put into it so if you're driving well, getting good fuel economy, staying in route, and making appointments on time then yes, you can absolutely make between $45,000 - $65,000 a year ($1,200 - $1,700 per week with 6 weeks on and 2 weeks off schedule).

Another question: ""you don't have to worry about finding a job after graduation" probably because you're requiring them to sign some sort of a lease agreement to lease on with your affiliate partners, correct?"

If they choose to work with us to pay off the school then yes, they will need to go through our Owner-Operator program. However, if they finance it themselves then there is no obligation. We had a student do that recently, actually. He paid for the school on his own and graduated without signing on for a lease contract or anything like that.

Again, if I could get some constructive feedback on the website with questions you'd like to see answered on the site please let me know. From what I could gather from this last round of... colorful responses, you'd like to see more information about the contracts. Are there any specific points on that which you would like to see? Do you have any other questions you'd like to see answered on the website?

So, to briefly touch on John's comments. He arrived 2 days ago after having phone conversations with our recruiting staff about the program, about how owner operators work, and how there would be a contract he would need to sign. He was also given the website which has been updated with a lot more information (and I'm working on adding even more before the end of the year). So, let me address some gross exaggerations and untruths.

Apartments: We currently have 3 apartments, two are 3 bedrooms and one is 2 bedrooms. Each apartment has two people per bedroom and 1 person in the main room. So the max we have living in one apartment is 7, not 11.

Food: I've seen the receipts from the shopping trips for the school apartments and while it isn't gourmet 5 course meals, it's not devoid of nutritional value either. There's plenty of non-processed proteins and other non-junk foods.

Travel: It was explained over the phone before John came out that we do not cover return travel. We're not a travel agency, we don't pay for vacation trips to Utah, and that was explained. John was brought out to start a job and he chose to not go through with it and we parted ways. We did provide him with room and board while he was here and we took him to the station when we parted ways. It should really be understood here that we are out a not insignificant amount of money because John chose to not go forward with our job opportunity so it did not benefit us in any way to have him leave.

Contracts: We do require a contract to work with us. These contracts do bind the driver to LIMITED financial responsibility for the truck that they are leasing. Just like if you were to drive as a company driver, you're still going to be responsible for your actions while you're behind the wheel. John was convinced that he would be charged the full price of the truck if anything happened despite our assurances that this wasn't the case. Things like that are why insurance exists. The trucks are insured for cases where something does happen to protect everyone involved from financial liability. Owner-operators are also set up as a LLC which, again, has LIMITED LIABILITY. For whatever reason no amount of conversation would convince him that nobody would be coming after his house and possessions if he got into a wreck in the truck. Regarding multiple contracts, we do have sister companies that operate in the same building that provide leasing services, dispatch services, and billing/accounting services. The whole system is designed to give drivers the benefits of working for a big trucking company, while making the income and having the freedom of an owner-operator. Payments, splitting the profit of the truck, how expenses play into that, etc. were all discussed on the phone.

School Trucks: I'm not certain that I'd call a 2015 automatic Peterbilt a horrid rig... We do have a dirt lot with cones where we have the students do a lot of their practicing and yes, they do have practice time on their own. However they also have plenty of time with the instructor who has had his CDL for more than 6 months.

So, I hope that helps clear up some exaggerations and false information. Unfortunately this kind of thing does happen when some people don't listen to everything and get upset when you don't tell them everything they want to hear.

On a side note, I am looking for more input on our website lobosinterstate.com. I'm wondering if there is anything that is not on there that you guys think we should have or if something isn't clear that could be explained better?

No what you are doing is not telling people so they get to Utah and when they don't sign they have to pay their own ride home... And that's shady...

As you just pointed out, WE pay for them to get to our office. WE pay that. It's not in our best interests to mislead people to come out here and then have them not go with us. That costs us money. There is this misconception here that we somehow intentionally "spring" things on people for some kind of laugh. The fact is that most people that come out understand what is going on and they get here with a solid concept of what to expect and they go out and make good money. Some people take some extra consideration and explanation. That is why we've started putting things in written form and we have new drivers and students sign these documents before they come out stating that they understand what has been laid out in the document and that is what they can expect. That holds both of us accountable.

That's why I answered Tony the way I did. There are certain details in his complaint that do match up with Lobo's published teaching plan, and several elements of ripping people off.

If Matt is a recruiter, and is not sure whether he discussed contracts and leasing with a candidate (or a mark!), Matt is way defficient in his scruples.

I have a lot of different phone calls every day and the conversation I had with Anthony was sometime in September. I don't recall every word I said to him on that phone call so, yes, it is possible I didn't use the word "contract" specifically. I don't know if you guys have tried to get jobs in other industries but they typically don't say things like "you're going to have to fill out a W4" or "you're going to need to sign a company policy contract" when you talk to them about the job on a phone interview because it's common knowledge that those things have to happen in order to start working. Would you call McDonald's shady because they don't tell their cooks they have to fill out a W4 on the phone?

It's not like we're throwing outrageous terms in the fine print of a contract and secretly putting the page in with other forms for the guys to sign. Everything is explained in great detail in our office before anything is signed. That's why we pay for travel to bring them out to our office if they are not in-state. We want to be able to sit down with them, in-person, to cover every little detail that is going on with our system and what they can expect out on the road. I would LOVE to be able to spend 2 hours with every single person that calls in about our opportunities going through our entire orientation process but, the fact of the matter, is that is just not practical. Like I mentioned in the post from yesterday, we are continually improving our processes to make things better. We're now doing checklists, summaries, etc. all written down and presented before anyone gets on a bus so they can know exactly what to expect. This came about because (and I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me) I will tell someone something explicitly on the phone and they say they were told something entirely different from what I said three days later. So, in order to combat that kind of issue, we're not only going over things on the phone but we're doing the written summary of the phone conversation and having them sign that paper to show that they understand everything.

My goal is to eliminate all confusion out of the recruiting process without spending 2 hours on every potential phone call that comes into the office. I will fully admit that things were confusing when I first started with the company 5 months ago and I thank Brett for bringing some things to my attention as well that I've been able to correct. It's an ongoing process, though, and I'm working on it every day. There are some things that you would think are a given (like the fact that you have to sign a contract and paperwork before taking out a very expensive truck) that I've had to spell out for people before. I'll fully admit that it's been a learning process for me, but I think things are significantly better now than when I started and I will continue to improve things as time goes on.

I'm sorry, but I am not going to address Brett's post as I've already explained a lot of that. I've already explained that our marketing is designed to have people call in so that all questions can be asked and things can be explained and proper expectations can be set. In the past the proper expectations haven't always been set; most drivers get it and understand but there are a few, like Anthony, that don't and that's why we've been improving out processes and sending out a lot of the information in writing before we book people's travel. I know videos are being worked on as well by another person I work with to explain everything in video form as well. I'm sorry our entire orientation process isn't on the website, but, as I've said many many times here, anyone can call us and we'll be happy to explain things and answer any questions.