Comments By Mark C.

Quick question: studying for the permit and got to the couple/uncouple process. I wanted to see the parts so the terminology doesn't throw me so I looked up some videos. Now the study guide I'm using says I should hook up air lines before hitching the kingpin, but the videos I'm watching, made by instructors, says to connect the fifth wheel before the air.

So which is it? Do I have a misprinted study guide, is this a state by state thing, or are the videos misleading? OR does it really matter on the CDP test?

Hoping to get the permit done this week or early next. Hope its as easy as the practice tests.

Thanks

While getting a feel for what’s ahead of me, I found this old thread. It caught my attention because I lived a similar situation in the plumbing world. And I thought some would be interested in where this lawsuit is going.

Last word I can find, the Pam lawsuit is being settled for $16.5M:

PAM must pay $16.5 million within 10 days of the final order granting approval of the settlement. Class members’ attorneys, Swartz-Swidler, will walk away with $5.5 million, plus “reasonable actual case-related costs and expenses” not to exceed $600,000. link

I thought it was noteworthy that the “bloodsucking lawyers” did quite well as predicted.

My case was working for a large national plumbing contractor on a strictly commission pay scale. I loved it and was making more money than ever before in my life. Then I was handed a check for $5K as part of my ‘settlement’. I didn’t even know there was a case.

My first thought was “this will be the most expensive $5k I’ll ever see”.

I was right. The entire pay structure was reconstructed. The company took on more expenses, paid for meeting time, tracked hours better, and cut commission rates. The formula for cutting commission left some of us with significantly higher pay rates than new hires. It didn’t take management long to reckon we should be driven out.

Still irks me that some “blood sucking lawyer” got rich by destroying my living, in the name of doing me a favor.

Hehe, I was kinda fond of J’dezer, sounds almost Biblical…

If you’re young enough you can acclimate to most things, except cold for me. Had to leave the cold. But when I was young in FL I was on a tree crew and got to where I could spend the day in the sun on the beach without sunscreen or worry of sunburn and loved the FL summers. But as I mentioned, I’m not acclimated any longer and carry a little more insulation against the cold. Ok, more than a little in the middle parts.

I mentioned that my last roommate experience was in the Army, quite a while back. My platoon sgt was smart and didn’t let us pick who we roomed with. It preserved friendships because roommates are people you have to have very frank conversations with. If you do go team, don’t worry about the other guy, just be the professional. You may have to request a new codriver from time to time, but you can only control who you are, not who they are. Don’t expect more than professionalism and offer no less, eventually you’ll tie up with someone you can work with. Least, that’s how bunk-mates worked out.

The contrarian view of teaming isn’t wrong, but it is rooted in their own experience. Most people are ill suited to teaming because most people are selfish and demanding, not saying any of those voices are, but I’m sure they encountered it. If you got stuck with nothing but difficult people, you’d be sour on the team thing too.

I left the Army because I had bad experiences. My CO wasn’t much good at leading and played favoritism. I young and selfish so I grew resentful and when my time was up I bugged out. Guys who went on to other units said it was so different in other places. There were times I regretted being shortsighted. The lesson I carry with me today from that experience is to not give up just because my version of the “right way” isn’t a reality. Manage expectations and always look inside first; if you’re a little mixed up inside, there’s no way you can fix anything on the outside.

So be thankful for the contrarian view. Consider you experience the worst possible codriver, how would you handle it? Is it worth it; can you endure? What are your long-term goals, and how does this help you get there? What motivates you towards one or the other? If its fear of driving alone, pick the company with a long training program. I was strongly considering RoehlRoehl. They don’t pay by the mile per-se. They hire and pay from day one so even school has a paycheck. Don’t think they’re hiring in FL but they have a Phoenix terminal. Of course I think their school is in WI… and it’ll be Jan.

I’m still likely heading to Pam because it’s only 6 weeks to a full paycheck, including school. Stevens will have me on training pay for that long or more plus the unpaid month of schooling. I’ll also qualify for benefits in 60 rather than 90. Unlike many here, I going to work for my family, not the joy of seeing the country. I’ve seen enough of the world to be content at home so that isn’t a draw for me, its what best meets my needs that I’ll pursue.

If 2020 has taught us anything, its that nothing is immune from change. I’ll be keeping my plans very flexible and hedging every bet.

If you understand what your choices are, why you would choose one over the other, and remain humble and determined to do your best, you won’t need any “newbie backup”. You’ll be just fine.

p.s. If I recall, it’s p.p.s. meaning after the after thought… You can even do p.p.p.s. Thanks for the feedback.

Hey J'dezer (my attempt at phonetics), hope yer Christmas was a good one.

I moved to FL when I was younger and thinner, used to be 80deg was just about nice for the AC and anything below 70 meant I needed a jacket. 95 in the shade was just that much better in the sun. Now I'm older, fatter, and happier (upgraded to a wife who likes me), so the heat will drive me back in some days and 72 on the AC ain't so bad anymore. I don't think it much matters where you are in FL, it's hot and muggy in the summer. Glasses fog when coming out of a store or the car, that's my first clue.

That said, I grew up in New England and spent 6 yrs in Germany so I'd much rather the muggy summers than deal with the north all winter long. That's why schooling location is on my mind, the idea of training for my license in WI in January just sends that shiver all through me, and I aint even there.

I've looked at private schools, there's one close that's quite reasonable in price, but why do that if I don't have to? Have you noticed any benefit for having done so?

Hiring areas and CPM seem to go out of date quickly. Florida hasn't been the land of opportunity for trucking, historically speaking. But Knight has a big terminal in Lakeland and that area is quickly becoming a trucking hub. Steven's trains in Tampa and I also think there's a lot of fuel coming into the Tampa port so I've been planning to look into tanker/HAZMAT after my year is up so I have more opportunity for home time.

Still, probably more jobs in AZ than FL for OTR.

Old School, Hope your Christmas was a good one. Wife got the virus so we had to keep it small (no symptoms).

I always appreciate being challenged to think again. I don't mind push back, it forces me to look for things I've missed. If it sounds like I'm pushing back, it ain't about arguing; it's how I use forums like to to understand what's driving my decisions.

I used to work my own little home improvement business, before that I was a commissioned plumber. I understand completely what you mean by performanced based. I prided myself on being efficient, not fast. That meant I was hitting all my marks the first time through a job. I took my time to make sure I never had to come back and redo something. It made me profitable even when bidding on highly competitive jobs. There are some things in the non-trucking world that cross over and I'd reckon this is one.

I'm not excited about teaming, just trying to find the best fit for my first year. CPM, time til benefits, home time, and school location are all in my equation (might be crazy but schooling in Jan just seems better in FL than WI, too many years in FL). Moreover, I ultimately have to get hired by one of them. As my old neighbor used to say, "if the big fish ain't bitin', I like the little ones the best".

There were days in plumbing I could run little drain jobs and make over $400 in commish and each job would be under $150. Then there were those high dollar leaks that end up taking two days to find and barely cover my expenses. Commission is a funny thing, higher price tag doesn't always equate to higher pay, I get it. (there was a day I completed 3 of those hard to find leaks and earned a weeks pay in a day, and other days when I could only get 2 drain jobs which didn't pay for gas)

Thing is, all I have to go on when applying for a company training program is what they tell me. They all tell me $50-60K is average 1st year and all the forums say $35-45K, there isn't much to go on beyond CPM. If everything else is equal, and I can't know if it is, I'd rather make more per mile. It's the only benchmark I have to work with.

I want a company that will let me grow. In my experience, better tools means better pay, so having something like HAZMAT seems like a good idea. My crazy Uncle Jimmy used to say "swinging beef pays the best, cuz it's awful tricky and too many get scared". I think he drove for about 40 yrs and passed on some years back, don't recall if he made it to the internet age of trucking. I ain't looking for swinging beef, so don't worry, just saying the more challenging the gig, the more it's likely to pay. Looking at the comments here I'd say teaming is more challenging to find drivers than solo, so it makes sense to me that it'd have a premium.

Ultimately, I'll likely be looking for that dedicated or local gig once I've paid my first year dues. I'll have to see what life throws at us in '21.

Thanks for spending the time, it's been good for me.

p.s. I reckon I'll have to write out my posts in Word, then log in. Getting logged out while typing than God help me if I refresh, the whole thing goes away.

Hello and Welcome fellow Floridian!

Back at ya!

I'm very optimistic about future possibilities here. I like the rural life so my degrees aren't real helpful, this will keep me living in the sticks. I've seen a lot of very enticing jobs listed near me, but the best ones always want that first year done. So... I'll do a year and see where I'm at. Who knows, maybe my kids will get jobs and support me... for a change.

Never made it to Hawaii, but my sister lived there for a spell and didn't like it much. And that bridge would be a big stretch between rest stops...

Knight's add on Indeed got me into this whole idea.

A solo at Prime would make $1200 to $1600 per week depending on miles and truck size

And after that initial training year this would be available to me. I don't know that I've landed on the best opportunity for me, but when I looked up Prime for that first year it wasn't nearly so lucrative. Everyone is promising $50K first year with a couple claiming $60k. Articles, which may be out of date, are setting expectations at $35-45k.

Stevens is now offering $.40 cpm right after 10 wks training, and the school is close by in Tampa. Not bad. Benefits are 90 days out from there. Dedicated available after 30 days (I've seen a lot of the world, kinda like the idea of a fixed route). Of course Every claim of income is based on best case so the $60k they hype isn't a given.

I'm not trying to defend any particular decision, I'm still evaluating and love the feedback. I will defend including income in my evaluation though. It's not everything, but it does matter. Who here would drive a rig if they hit lotto? An RV maybe, but hauling product? Of course income matters.

So far, Pam is offering benefits after 60 days, and full team pay after 2 weeks training, which follows the 3 weeks classes. Roehl was the best for benefits, but they don't seem to want to speak with me here in FL.

That's where you are so wrong

Forgive me, but I think you're reading into my comments. With respect, I may never have driven 18 wheels around the block but I have driven a 10t, 10 gear, dump truck. Ok, for a day and that was 35 years ago, funny story, but still, I've done quite a few things with a steep learning curve. Some of them plenty dangerous. I'm confident in my ability to learn and I have enough fear as to respect the job. I'm not a fool who thinks I can do no wrong, I'm keenly aware that I can and take great care to mitigate risk.

You know it's not the novices who cut off fingers with power tools, it's the experienced pros who get complacent. Darn near happened to me.

I've trained people in various jobs and it's natural to search for misconceptions held by people just starting out. You expect me to be wrong because so many trainees are, but I beg your indulgence to trust I do consider the big picture. It gets redundant to preface every statement with caveats but I understand how you would assume I'm counting dollars at the expense of all else. The first year is about learning. It's about gaining that essential experience to open up career path opportunities. It's about becoming excellent at efficiency and safety. That said, this education and maximizing earnings are not mutually exclusive. IOW, I'm seeking to achieve the greatest financial reward without sacrificing that education towards future opportunity.

I've never claimed team driving is the optimal way to operate, for some it may be but I don't expect to team drive past that initial phase. Then again, I may surprise myself. I acknowledge there are additional challenges involved. What I don't acknowledge is that I'm doomed to failure if I go this route. I expect no guarantees, but nothing ventured nothing gained. Ultimately, my hands are not tied since the company also offers solo. it just pays less.

Now if you drive 3,000 mile and your buddy only manages 1,800 miles

I do appreciate the concern, but I don't see that part as a problem. If each puts in the same hours, the miles will average out. Into my 50's, I've driven enough to know that driving a highway averaging 45 is a lot more strenuous than a smooth 65. Those 1800 may well be the short end of the stick.

If 5k mi/wk is unrealistic, then so should 2500 for a solo. Perhaps I'm missing something here, but the challenges of teaming are mostly being able to tolerate being cooped up with someone else and sleeping in a moving rig. Since training is pseudo teaming I'll have some answers by its end. I'll have team and solo opportunities after training.

One of my considerations is being told teams get the longer runs since they can turn more miles in a day. Theoretically, and I know the difference between "on paper" and IRL, there are more miles available to a team than a solo. I know nothing will be exactly as imagined (wish I could have that conversation with my Army recruiter all over again), so I keep expectations in check, but I will set flexible goals as this unfolds.

This year has been tough and it's set me back a bit. Its all about how much can I endure to shorten the catch-up process. If it turns out I can only endure the solo gig and reduce income by 10-15k, so be it. Once the year is up, I'll reevaluate.

I will do all I can to avoid an inexperienced co-driver. The training is perhaps too short at only 2 weeks. I'm confident in myself, but would like to be confident in the other seat. I don't expect making teaming a career, it's about getting the most financially out of my rookie year. (and I've read to be careful not to be lax in learning so as to be prepared for solo when the time comes)

If God shines on us and lockdowns don't kill all the restaurants near me, my wife and I will do fine even I make half what I'm looking for. If we lose her income I'll need to be in a position to maximize my potential.

So thanks for all the insight, God bless ya'll and Merry Christmas

I'm curious with how you think you'll earn more running 48 cpm split.

I'm pretty good at math and don't understand the question. If the truck is getting 48 cpm, and each driver gets half the miles, isn't that 48 cpm straight up for that half? Assuming the truck is rolling 5-6kish/week, that's same as a solo gig at 48cpm doing 2.5-3k/week. Problem is, Pam doesn't pay solo 48cpm, it's 30 with slow raises to 40 and that 48 becomes 50 at 3 months. Plus there's the stipend of $5k for teaming for a year. I've yet to speak with anyone who competes, but I'm still entertaining offers if you know of one.

I don't know how to make the math for (1st year) solo and team even close to equal.

all that aside, the company isn't exclusively teams so I'll know pretty quick if the money is worth it, and if not i don't have to quit the company. Least that's my perspective from talking to them.

As for teaming with a friend, I used to have a rule when I was running a remodeling business not to work for friends, family, or neighbors (unless I'm volunteering). It's hard to have a business relationship with a friend or family. Marriage can be different because that business is a true partnership since all the money goes to the same goal, but money kills friendships and sometimes bonds strangers into one. Teaming with someone I've never met means holding and living up to standards of professionalism. In theory anyway.

Teaming isn't popular and unpopular jobs pay better. It's simple economics. It may take hunting for that better pay, but it's out there guaranteed. Of course poor performance will eliminate any benefit quickly.

I'm certain I'll be rubbing someone wrong along the way, all I can do is give it a run and see.