Comments By Banks

Again, no one is doing anything for free. It seems you guys must have everything neatly labeled in order to understand it.

Don't need anything "neatly labeled". The fact remains that many drivers work for free. A driver spending hours at a shop, a shipper or in traffic isn't making money. They also underpay miles because it's "industry standard". That's why the turnover rate is so high. It's not because people can't handle the lifestyle, it's because it's a ripoff and eventually people start to feel the way Davy does.

How would you guys describe the compensation of someone who is working for a consistent salary? Let's use the example of a restaurant manager who is paid $75,000 per year.

Someone paid salary isn't paid by the piece the way a driver is. They'll get paid regardless so long as the duties are completed. It's a way to control costs and allow for flexibility. It's a silly comparison. A driver's pay is based on the miles they drive and if they don't drive they don't get paid. As a result, there's no respect for their time. They can sit there forever so long as the consignee gets their freight and the company gets paid. Nobody cares about the driver sitting there.

No one ever spells out exactly what the manager has to do to earn that salary except for one goal - grow the revenues 10% per year and the profits at 12% per year. That's it. That's the only stipulation.

That's incredibly stupid. No company gives salaried employees some ridiculous goal with no guidelines or responsibilities. There will always be a guide and rules on what a management team does in addition to the goals they're expected to accomplish. It's also silly to say that something can get accomplished with no time or work invested.

If you can't understand why getting paid by the mile is the best approach for OTR and regional drivers, then you can't possibly understand how being paid a steady salary works, either.

Best for whom? Certainly not the driver. I thought you were the advocate for the working man.... What a bunch of baloney.

so I don't believe they're taking advantage of drivers.

You don't think drivers are being taken advantage of being paid zip code to zip code on the shortest route while being instructed to go around tolls? They're not being taken advantage of when they're sitting on the side of the road for free? Keep advocating for those great working conditions.

This was my day today

Paid for every single mile I drove and everything I did. It's not that difficult to pay people for the work they're doing. It may be a slight inconvenience or an adjustment period but it's very doable. But industry standard prevents it and as long as people like you continue to defend these mega corps at the expense of employees it'll never change.

Your job is far more predictable and controllable in those areas than an OTR job would be.

I've never done otr so I don't speak on that aspect of this industry and every company pays different. Some pay it all in the cpm, others pay some and attach bonuses to get the rest. The employee has to pick what fits their needs best.

How would you calculate the average detention time for 3,000 drivers running random freight to random customers?

LTL companies do it all the time. FedEx has a 15 minutes per handling unit allotment before they start charging detention fees. It gets very expensive very fast. Old Dominion has a 10 minute allotment.

If they change how they break it down, they'll adjust it so you're making the same in the end anyhow. It's all pre-calculated.

Of course it is. Every company has a set cost for labor and their goal is to be at cost or lower. Whether or not it works out to the same has too many variables. For example, I have a friend that works for Estes. They can have him sitting there for hours waiting on a trailer. They won't pay him to hook up a trailer. Our CPM rate is equivalent. That's a more realistic comparison.

People getting paid by the mile think their wages would go up if they started getting paid by the hour, or got more accessory pay. That's not what would happen. They would adjust your various pay rates so you make the same in the end.

Again, too many factors to call that an absolute truth. It may be true driving through Nebraska, but it's not true going through LA or Atlanta. Again, the employee has to determine what works best for them. There's no one size fits all approach here.

If you think mileage pay means you're doing most things for free, you would take deal #2.

"If the wheels ain't turnin', i ain't gettin' paid". Probably the phrase that's most synonymous with trucking wages and has been for as long as I can remember. I'd say that my buddy that works at estes sitting, waiting 2 or 3 hours for a trailer is working for free. He's on duty and not getting paid. He calls me and sounds the way Davy did in his original post. I get the frustration and I wouldn't work for a company that did that because it doesn't work for me and I'd be frustrated every night.

I'm confused by that statement because that's basically what Banks talked about in a discussion about unions and you were adamant that was the wrong way to live life.

I noticed that too, but didn't want to reopen that can of worms.

My mileage rate is 78 CPM. All of the accessorial pay is in addition to that. That's what I mean when I say I don't do anything for free. There's an established rate for every task I do from waiting to hooking up and dropping doubles. It's not built into the mileage rate, it's its own separate pay rate.

I'm not complaining, I have no gripes with my employer. I don't do anything for free. I get paid for sitting in traffic, putting a tractor under a trailer, putting fuel in the truck, if the load isn't ready on time I get paid my hourly rate of 34.11 to play with my phone in my truck and I get paid for every mile I drive. If I go off route, dispatch will add the miles for me at the end of the day. I have no complaints.

People have issues with their employer. My wife is dealing it with now. I tell her to focus on the positive. She's getting paid what she wants, she's close to home, she has the schedule she wants and she likes what she does. But she can't help but focus on how much management sucks.

It's easier to get consumed by negative rather than focus on positive.

I don't know what Davy's day to day is like. I can't downplay his feelings on this because he's the one going through it and the toll it takes on a person will vary based on the individual. I agree with all of his points and while it may affect Brett and Old School differently, they're not Davy. That's not meant as a slight at either one of them, but saying "it's not that bad" or "that doesn't matter" isn't going to ease his frustration.

Like I said earlier, he has to determine if the grass is greener on another pasture. He's the only one that can answer that and he's the one that has to live with the decision.

My perspective is, it's their company. They can do what they see fit and I can decide if I want to work for them. If people will continue to work, the behavior will continue. There's a reason nobody pays 7/hr and it's not because they're kind.

This was something that came up a lot when I was looking into this field 7 years ago and it bothered me then. You're absolutely right. My plan 7 years ago was to go OTR, do my year (sounds like a bid upstate) and find something better. The thought of sitting at a shipper or consignee for hours without compensation was a bitter pill to swallow, but one I was willing to for the chance to improve my position in life.

Trucking and restaurants seem to be the 2 industries that screw over workers the most and that's because it's a race to the bottom. Customers can pick anybody to move their stuff from point A to point B. They're willing to pay for more reliability, but most of the time I don't think they care. Same as restaurant patrons. First thing they look at is the price. When you go in, you're pressed to leave a tip because the server makes 2/hr or something crazy like that. You'll never curb the greed at the top or the goal of jacking up the stock price so I just say the serenity prayer.

The fact is if you're willing to deal with it, they'll continue to do it. Right now they don't care because there's more drivers than loads.

I'm thankful I don't have to deal with these issues. The miles my GPS brings up and the miles I'm getting paid for are identical more often than not and when they're not it's close enough for me to not care.

It's a question that people have to answer for themselves. Does it bother you enough to make you sacrifice the relationships and reputation you've built to start from scratch somewhere else? That's the dilemma. Start over now or continue to build resentment over time because you're comfortable where you are and built a name for yourself? If it's the former, do what you have to do. If it's the latter, they'll continue to do it and get more brazen when they need to. Wasn't too long ago everybody was offering sign on bonuses. Now they nickel and dime you.

They're slick with it too like with the fuel bonus. You meet the requirements and you get an extra $.03. They save money while you work longer hours for literal pennies. I thought about this when I passed a prime going as slow as he could. If I'm driving 100 miles and everything is perfect, it'll take me 2 hours doing 50 MPH. If I do 65 it'll take me an hour and a half. I'd be working an extra 30 minutes for 3 dollars (pretax) to save the corp buttloads on fuel. It's stupid to me, but people are willing to do it so they continue to push it.

It's all a scam from the bonuses to the leases. It's just a matter of doing the best you can to benefit from it.

I had the same problem. I ended up getting hired as a driver apprentice at FedEx freight 5 years ago. I've never not slept in my bed and I'm home everyday. There are options, they're just location specific and require some digging.

For several years I have seen large warehouses being built all over the country.

A bunch have been built in my area. The selling point is the proximity to 80, 81, 84 and 95. They sit vacant with "for lease" signs in front of them.

That time of year again. It's the same week my local police municipality is out in full force stopping everybody for everything. The DOT blitz is my reminder to be on my best behavior.

I'm surprised they usually do a good job with new terminals and getting them up and running.

They did and continue to do a horrible job here. I've never seen a shtshow like this.

Apparently, they overestimated how much freight they were going to have. They're on a firing spree right now. They've fired a bunch of dock workers and 21 to go. They've fired 4 office workers and are looking to terminate 4 more. In my opinion, that's foul. Had all of these people leave stable jobs to fire them 2 months later in this job economy. Hearing them talk about it, it's like they thought it was field of dreams. "If you build it, they will come". It's so stupid.

As for management here, they're stupid too. It seems like they just promoted a bunch of people from within that had no management experience. They're rude and disrespectful towards employees. The conversations I overhear while my wife is on the phone with her coworkers is mind boggling. I also know people there from FedEx and that I go to church with and they tell the same story. Then they have the nerve to tell people to be on their best behavior to make a good impression when corporate visits. You're firing everybody and treating them horribly. I have yet to meet one person that has anything good to say about this place.

I'm glad I didn't make that jump when they opened. It feels like I dodged a bullet.

Have you guys had consistent miles?

Nope. I usually work Monday and Friday because the senior guys will take a 3 day weekend, especially if the weather is nice. And I'll usually get something in the middle of the week. I'm working 2-3 days a week now. Pretty frustrating because I was good on furlough and now my hands are tied and I can't commit myself to anything else because i never know when my phone is going to ring.

Have you had a pay raise?

We get one annually. We get the details in August and it goes into effect in October. It's usual between 3 and 5 percent.

Is your company growing?

Reading the earnings reports, there's less shipments but more profits.

FedEx is focused on Merging Express, ground and FedEx services to become Federal Express. Since freight isn't part of that equation (yet), it's not getting much attention, but FedEx has been shutting down buildings they seem redundant or futile. I think they're up to almost 40 buildings that have been shutdown in the past year. Some drivers have been allowed to follow the work, employees that weren't given the opportunity or opted not to were given severance packages.