Profile For Robert B. (The Dragon) yes, I breathe fire and other sideshow tricks

Every lease purchase program is different and the vast majority are horrid. They have it where I’m at and I did ask about it out of curiosity because quite a few drivers here are on it and they’re older hands who have been here 10-15 years or more. Nobody ever intends to buy the truck, they cycle them out at 3-350k while still under warranty and there’s trade in value left in the truck. The down payment is 25k and they have various ways which it can be paid. The pay is 81% of the rate plus 100% off the fuel surcharge and 100% off any detention as well as deadhead pay and additional pay on some loads. Currently, the fuel surcharge is 38% based on the rate so for example a $1000 load paid $380 for the fuel surcharge. Our loads are generally around 5-600 miles so at the current fuel surcharge, those drivers aren’t paying for the fuel and usually pocketing money as well, along with fuel discounts accrued and paid out each month.

Anytime brother, anytime. Oddly enough, I found the portion being used to “justify” the restart of the 10 hour break when using PC for out of hours parking. It’s very convoluted wording and wrong to be doing it for those officers who are but when you read it carefully, you can see how they could get away with it.

I don’t discount his point of view but as you’ve both mentioned, you’re going to defer to FMCSA guidance. Based on that, your 2 mile gain is a moot point because you used PC to make a grocery run. It works out to be a benefit but does not violate the policy. Opinions are just that if we’re going to stick with the guidance and the only interpretation which matters is left specifically up to the officer. Nobody can predict that, but an individuals attitude can definitely impact the outcome. It’s best to just stay cool.

Also, I did talk to Tim again about our earlier discussion regarding how Packrat uses it. It’s perfectly legal and what it’s designed for, even being a dedicated account which was my concern. He did however mention that if it’s being used every day and the combined trip to and from was adding up to several hours per week, it could raise a red flag and potentially get sent off for a review. Granted, it’s still legal but could pose a hassle for the company involved, especially if it involved multiple drivers.

That link in particular is in response to a phone call with FMCSA asking specific questions which aren’t clarified in the guidance. They mention it in the article and all of the information contained comes directly from the individual on that call.

Now, PC cannot be used to specifically advance the load, that’s illegal. As long as it’s being used in a personal nature though, it’s allowed.

If you go to the fleet owner site, it highlights all of the new PC changes. It doesn’t matter if it advances the load, it doesn’t matter if you return to the starting point. Regardless of whether or not your parking, going to the store, or grabbing a shower.

And I'll give another scenario that I think is an appropriate use of PC involving the "terminal" for personal purposes. While under a load, I am relatively close to the Pittston terminal, but because of limited parking there, I park at a truck stop nearby that has more parking. After I park at the truck stop for the night, I find out the showers don't work. I drive to the Prime Pittston terminal to take a shower and then back to the truck stop on my 10-hour break. After my 10-hour break is over, I continue with my load.

Would you say that I need to drive to the terminal on the drive line?

No, you are not furthering the load and returned to where you started.

Laura

With the most recent changes to PC, returning from the starting point no longer matters and the recent guidance only mentions moving to the closest available parking, the direction doesn’t matter.

I’m gonna call him lol. I’m also going to check with our log auditor tomorrow because we have a few drivers who do something similar but I’m not sure how they log that movement. It’s a curious question for sure and maybe one of those gray areas left up to interpretation.

If it’sa matter of actually dropping the truck off, jumping in a personal vehicle and then going home, I can understand that. Maybe that’s what I missed out on.

Because as it’s stated, the truck is being positioned for the next load. As a dedicated driver, those loads are picked up and delivered at the same locations. Regardless of dispatch or not, it’s coming from the same place unless there’s an exception for that?

Unless I’m reading this wrong, I’m thinking Grumpy is correct.

Late season load of potatoes on its way to become French fries.

I’m glad to see that a mistake on my part has actually turned into a decent discussion highlighting potential mistakes others make.

I called Tim back last night and asked him specifically how and why they were able to enforce what they’re doing. He told me it was a combination of officers being picky, taking a bit of liberty in enforcement and a crucial driver error that I know I’ve made but will now be more aware of. I told him the scenario I posted here and he agreed it was an authorized and common use of PC. His next question was where I and many others totally screwed up. “So the driver left to go park, never closed the doors or performed any actions requiring an on duty status?” That’s where drivers have been getting hung up and again, I totally missed it and apologize to ask for that mistake. He did admit that in shorter PC moves in some cases, he’s shut a driver down for a 10, starting at the point where they went back off duty and avoided writing a log violation for not showing the on duty work related t time before leaving the facility.

The way it was explained to me is that they’re looking for it on the 10 hour break and not a 34 and looking at whether or not the driver was out of hours when it was used. Whether or not what they’re doing is right and will stand up in court is an answer I haven’t heard but the reason for the enforcement was to ensure a full 10 hour break.

It’s my cousins oldest son, 20 year Indiana state trooper and DOT certified. Minnesota is also citing for it and we had a driver get tagged in Wisconsin for it. I haven’t heard if they’re fighting it or not but I’ll be curious to find out. In regards to Old Schools comment. Whether loaded or unloaded, if you’re out of hours and the customer does not allow parking, you’re allowed to use it to proceed to the closest available parking location, regardless if it forwards the load.

You’re on the right track and I apologize if the example is a little confusing but it’s a bit of a trick question. Going off duty at 1800 will allow your 10 hour break to be over at 0400. Most people will see that and think, ok, I can drive now. The catch is the use of PC. You’ll still show as off duty as to not violate the HOS and moving the vehicle in an allowed fashion. However, your 10 hour break doesn’t start until the PC move is complete which would have been at 2100 meaning you can’t legally start driving until 0700.

I brought this up because I was recently speaking with a family member who works in law enforcement and this has been a common mistake which they’ve been citing and shutting down drivers for much more often.

Let me start this by asking the experienced drivers to hold off on answering to give our newer drivers a shot at it.

Scenario : You arrive at a shipper, get pulled up to your door and put yourself Off Duty at 1800 (6pm). At 2030, they finish loading but your 14 hour clock has expired so you PC for 30 minutes to find parking.

What time will you get hours back, what time can you start driving and why ?

Just wanted to touch on your "whats wrong about it" question.

It seems to come down to differing interpretations of the DoT requirements. Ill call them the "literal" and "safe" interpretations.

You are required to make sure your equipment is safe before you begin driving. You are also required to complete a vehicle inspection daily.

The literal interpretation, taught to me by Prime, uses a time period of off duty prior to starting your drive shift to show a pretrip inspection/walkaround. This is your logged period of making sure the equipment is safe before driving. At the end of your shift, an on duty inspection is logged to satisfy your required daily inspection. Prime has confirmed with DoT that this is acceptable and teaches this method to its incoming students as a way to efficiently log your inspections.

Many drivers/companies take it an extra safe step and log the pretrip on duty to make sure that there is no question that the driver made sure the equipment was safe before driving. Others will log it on duty because they feel that any work related task should be logged on duty so that no DoT officer or lawyer can question it. This is what I'm referring to as the "safe" interpretation.

Neither interpretation is wrong.

There is no “feeling” that work related time is to be recorded as duty, that’s quite literally in the regulations. Each company determines how they want to see drivers log their information within the guidelines. Some prefer to just meet the requirements and others take it a step further. So long as the guidelines are met, there’s no real right or wrong, just time consumed. The likelihood of getting shut down by an officer for log violations while using electronic logs is pretty slim and you’d have to be pretty sloppy to get jammed up. Not to mention most company log departments will have caught it, reprimanded or advised the driver and made those adjustments.