Can CDL Drivers Claim Personal Sovereignty Rights?

Topic 1021 | Page 1

Page 1 of 2 Next Page Go To Page:
Eddie F.'s Comment
member avatar

Hi all,

Perhaps some of you have heard of car drivers claiming "the common law right to travel", and signing tickets with "without prejudice, all common law rights reserved, no contract" above their signature on the ticket. CDL drivers are,of course, "driving in commerce", so I'm wondering whether or not they can do the sorts of things I mentioned.

I mention these things because I had to deal with a power-tripping jerk of a cop who wanted to nail me at the California Highway Patrol scale at Donner Summit (on I-80) for a logbook violation for not having 7 days of logs to show him, despite the fact that I only drove one previous day the past week, and it was well within the 100 air miles of the base. He also threatened to put the truck out of service for 10 hours - all because Penske Truck Rental didn't have a valid registration for the truck. (Fortunately, there was a cooler cop in charge. I wasn't written up for anything, only handed a notice for the expired license).

I already asked this other fellow I know of online, who is into the whole personality sovereignty situation, defending oneself in court, seeking remedies from tyrannical cops, etc. But I was wodnering if any of you had some thoughts on these situations.

Thanks very much.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

Logbook:

A written or electronic record of a driver's duty status which must be maintained at all times. The driver records the amount of time spent driving, on-duty not driving, in the sleeper berth, or off duty. The enforcement of the Hours Of Service Rules (HOS) are based upon the entries put in a driver's logbook.

guyjax(Guy Hodges)'s Comment
member avatar

If you are a driver legally bound by law to have a logbook in the truck(goes more than 150 miles from home base) then you are required to have 7 days worth of previous logs in your truck even if you only worked one day you still have to log everyday as if you were there except it would be logged as Off-Duty. Now if you stay only within that 150 radius of your homebase you are fine BUT....if you ever go outside that 150 mile radius if only once a week then you are required to have logbook in the truck cause you fall under the classification of an Over The Road(long distance) truck driver. Does not matter about just that day. Its not the day to day operation that matters but the OVER ALL operation that is taken into account.

Logbook:

A written or electronic record of a driver's duty status which must be maintained at all times. The driver records the amount of time spent driving, on-duty not driving, in the sleeper berth, or off duty. The enforcement of the Hours Of Service Rules (HOS) are based upon the entries put in a driver's logbook.

Over The Road:

Over The Road

OTR driving normally means you'll be hauling freight to various customers throughout your company's hauling region. It often entails being gone from home for two to three weeks at a time.

Eddie F.'s Comment
member avatar

Guy,

Thanks very much for the explanation and clarification about logs, and being over 150 miles, etc.

I'm waiting to hear back from this other fellow about whether or not a CDL driver can apply the common law to defend against a ticket, etc. The common law is all about: if one doesn't damage anyone else or their property, then there is no harm and no foul. If and when he writes back, I'll post his answer here.

Thanks very much again, Guy..

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
Eddie F.'s Comment
member avatar

Guy,

Doing a little digging on the net, the number of miles exempted from logging seems to be 100, not 150 miles. If something has changed, where the exemption is now 150 miles, could you give me a citation for that? That would make a huge difference, as google maps seems to say that the **road** miles distance from Roseville, CA to Reno, NV is 115 miles (so air miles should be less). Thanks again for your help.

guyjax(Guy Hodges)'s Comment
member avatar

Guy,

Thanks very much for the explanation and clarification about logs, and being over 150 miles, etc.

I'm waiting to hear back from this other fellow about whether or not a CDL driver can apply the common law to defend against a ticket, etc. The common law is all about: if one doesn't damage anyone else or their property, then there is no harm and no foul. If and when he writes back, I'll post his answer here.

Thanks very much again, Guy..

This is the first time I have heard anything about a common law to defend against tickets but lets just go with that for a minute....If that actually is such a thing then that might work in a normal car but CDL holders and commercial truck drivers are regulated by the federal government and that completely separates them from non commercial drivers.

Once you get the ticket in a commercial vehicle it is your ticket and not much can be done about it. I have have done some reading on Common Law and Equity Law because this topic came up and by getting and receiving a CDL license you are agreeing to obey all laws in order to keep that CDL and in a sense is a contract which would follow under Equity Law.

With Common Law even though you have to produce an injured or an a grieved party or the ability to challenge your accuser in court you have to remember your rights end where other people's right begin.

In the original post it was asked about Common Law and it can be argued that by accepting a licence to operate a vehicle you are agreeing to obey the law in the state you are at the time driving in and could be up held by Equity Law. To push the issue further It can also be argued that it falls under Common Law as the states have the right to set speed limits(and goes for other laws governing commercial vehicles) to ensure some semblance of public safety and by not following that law or sets of laws the state issuing the ticket can claim a grieved party on behave of the state and the general public at large.

So until a judgement defining the issue either way showing or giving standing to one above the other there is not much you can do except follow the rules the Federal Government has laid down for us.

In the original post the only ticket that was issued was for an expired license plate which the current driver is fully responsible for since the driver has to ,by law, make sure the vehicle is perfectly legal to drive BEFORE they operate the vehicle under the PTI rules governing commercial vehicles...The vehicle has to be in safe to operate and you have to have all the proper paperwork including but not limited to insurance and tags on the vehicle.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

guyjax(Guy Hodges)'s Comment
member avatar

Guy,

Doing a little digging on the net, the number of miles exempted from logging seems to be 100, not 150 miles. If something has changed, where the exemption is now 150 miles, could you give me a citation for that? That would make a huge difference, as google maps seems to say that the **road** miles distance from Roseville, CA to Reno, NV is 115 miles (so air miles should be less). Thanks again for your help.

You were correct. It is 100 air miles for CDL holders. Not 150. Its 150 miles for NON CDL holders that are driving a commercial vehicle. So Yes by law you have to carry a log book in the truck and log all on duty time. The same as any OTR driver. You got really lucky that you were not placed out of service.

The HOS regulations do not specifically define or use the term "short haul" except as a caption for § 395.1(e), which includes requirements for drivers using the 100 air-mile radius exception and those covered by the "non-CDL, as defined in Part 383, 150 air-mile radius" provision.

§ 395.1(e)(1)? The 100 air-mile radius exception in Part § 395.1(e)(1) is an option to use time records in lieu of RODS on days when the driver meets the conditions of the exception, which are:

The driver operates within a 100 air-mile ( 115 statute miles) radius of the normal work reporting location, and The driver returns to the work reporting location and be released from duty within 12 consecutive hours, and The driver maintains time records as specified in the rule, and The driver is not covered by the "non-CDL 150 air-mile radius" provision.

Part § 395.1(e)(2) Drivers of non-CDL vehicles (those vehicles not requiring a CDL, as defined in Part 383 to operate) who are operating within a 150 air-mile radius of their normal work reporting location and return to their normal work reporting location at the end of their duty tour are now covered by separate HOS provisions. Drivers meeting these conditions are not eligible for the existing 100 air-mile radius provision in § 395.1(e)(1) or the current 16-hour exception in § 395.1(o), since those conflict with this new Non-CDL 150 air-mile radius provision. These drivers are required to comply with the following:

(a) The 11 hours driving, minimum 10 hours off-duty, 14 consecutive hour duty period, 60/70 hours in 7/8 days, 34-hour restart all apply.

(b) On any 2 days of every 7 consecutive days, the driver may extend the 14-hour duty period to 16 hours.

(c) There is no requirement that the driver be released from duty at the end of the 14- or 16-hour duty periods . The driver may continue to perform non-driving duties, which would be counted against the 60/70 hour weekly limitation.

(d) Time records may be used in lieu of records of duty status.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

OTR:

Over The Road

OTR driving normally means you'll be hauling freight to various customers throughout your company's hauling region. It often entails being gone from home for two to three weeks at a time.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Kevin B.'s Comment
member avatar

Guy, I think you should've been a lawyer!rofl-2.gif but, you are definitely a very intelligent human being! if I ever get in trouble I want you to represent me! lol!

Daniel B.'s Comment
member avatar

Guy,

Doing a little digging on the net, the number of miles exempted from logging seems to be 100, not 150 miles. If something has changed, where the exemption is now 150 miles, could you give me a citation for that? That would make a huge difference, as google maps seems to say that the **road** miles distance from Roseville, CA to Reno, NV is 115 miles (so air miles should be less). Thanks again for your help.

Why did you use the example Roseville, CA to Reno, NV? Do you live in Roseville?

Eddie F.'s Comment
member avatar

Guy, thanks for your reply, and your superb knowledge. I agree with Kevin, that you would make an excellent lawyer.

On the subject of the common law: I remember a non-CDL driver received a seat belt ticket, and used the common law argument in court, claiming that there was no injured party. The judge replied, exactly as you mentioned, that public safety concerns trumped his right to drive without wearing a seat belt.

Yes, you are correct that I was lucky to avoid the Out of Service imposition. Fortunately, a cooler-headed cop was in charge of the station, and must have said something to the "hot dog" that did the Level One inspection.

I also fear that someone who takes cops to court (sues them to get their bond revoked, or something similar) may soon find his CDL revoked under some pretense. He may spend more time in court (or jail) than behind the wheel.

Thanks again for your help.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
Eddie F.'s Comment
member avatar

double-quotes-start.png

Guy,

Doing a little digging on the net, the number of miles exempted from logging seems to be 100, not 150 miles. If something has changed, where the exemption is now 150 miles, could you give me a citation for that? That would make a huge difference, as google maps seems to say that the **road** miles distance from Roseville, CA to Reno, NV is 115 miles (so air miles should be less). Thanks again for your help.

double-quotes-end.png

Why did you use the example Roseville, CA to Reno, NV? Do you live in Roseville?

Daniel B, yes, I live and work in Roseville. Actually, I just looked up the latitude and longitude coordinates for both Roseville, CA and Reno, NV on Google. I then went to the NOAA site that gives the distance between the two sets of coordinates, and found there was 83 nautical miles between the two cities. However, I'm sure they'd find a way to nail you for that, so it's best to just do your logbooks, and be done with it.

PS: Watch out for that CHP scale/inspection station at Donner Summit. The cop in the jumpsuit is a first-class butthead. On the other hand, the CHP scale/inspection station between Sac and Fairfield was very polite. When I got the right-arrow to pull over, a cop came out and apologized that the arrow was stuck from the previous truck.

Logbook:

A written or electronic record of a driver's duty status which must be maintained at all times. The driver records the amount of time spent driving, on-duty not driving, in the sleeper berth, or off duty. The enforcement of the Hours Of Service Rules (HOS) are based upon the entries put in a driver's logbook.

Page 1 of 2 Next Page Go To Page:

New Reply:

New! Check out our help videos for a better understanding of our forum features

Bold
Italic
Underline
Quote
Photo
Link
Smiley
Links On TruckingTruth


example: TruckingTruth Homepage



example: https://www.truckingtruth.com
Submit
Cancel
Upload New Photo
Please enter a caption of one sentence or less:

Click on any of the buttons below to insert a link to that section of TruckingTruth:

Getting Started In Trucking High Road Training Program Company-Sponsored Training Programs Apply For Company-Sponsored Training Truck Driver's Career Guide Choosing A School Choosing A Company Truck Driving Schools Truck Driving Jobs Apply For Truck Driving Jobs DOT Physical Drug Testing Items To Pack Pre-Hire Letters CDL Practice Tests Trucking Company Reviews Brett's Book Leasing A Truck Pre-Trip Inspection Learn The Logbook Rules Sleep Apnea
Done
Done

0 characters so far - 5,500 maximum allowed.
Submit Preview

Preview:

Submit
Cancel

This topic has the following tags:

Hours Of Service Logbook Questions Understanding The Laws
Click on any of the buttons above to view topics with that tag, or you can view a list of all forum tags here.

Join Us!

We have an awesome set of tools that will help you understand the trucking industry and prepare for a great start to your trucking career. Not only that, but everything we offer here at TruckingTruth is 100% free - no strings attached! Sign up now and get instant access to our member's section:
High Road Training Program Logo
  • The High Road Training Program
  • The High Road Article Series
  • The Friendliest Trucker's Forum Ever!
  • Email Updates When New Articles Are Posted

Apply For Paid CDL Training Through TruckingTruth

Did you know you can fill out one quick form here on TruckingTruth and apply to several companies at once for paid CDL training? Seriously! The application only takes one minute. You will speak with recruiters today. There is no obligation whatsoever. Learn more and apply here:

Apply For Paid CDL Training

About Us

TruckingTruth was founded by Brett Aquila (that's me!), a 15 year truck driving veteran, in January 2007. After 15 years on the road I wanted to help people understand the trucking industry and everything that came with the career and lifestyle of an over the road trucker. We'll help you make the right choices and prepare for a great start to your trucking career.

Read More

Becoming A Truck Driver

Becoming A Truck Driver is a dream we've all pondered at some point in our lives. We've all wondered if the adventure and challenges of life on the open road would suit us better than the ordinary day to day lives we've always known. At TruckingTruth we'll help you decide if trucking is right for you and help you get your career off to a great start.

Learn More