Logging

Hi, still studying for my permit and I came across this answer. Can someone elaborate on the first sentence please?

"You must remain within four hours of the current time and it must be done in pen. And don't tell the officer where he can "stick it" as you hand him your book!"

Hi, still studying for my permit and I came across this answer. Can someone elaborate on the first sentence please?

"You must remain within four hours of the current time and it must be done in pen. And don't tell the officer where he can "stick it" as you hand him your book!"

In other words if you are using paper logs your last duty status change can not be longer than 4 hours since the change. In other words you not going to drive 10 hours before stopping

Serah, one of the ways you can cheat with paper logs is to "back things up". I'm going to use a way over-simplified example just to explain the concept. And of course I have to give my customary disclaimer - you guys and gals should not break the law. I used to do it and so did a lot of drivers but that was a conscious decision I made. I knew the risk/reward ratio and I was willing to pay the consequences by losing my job if I got caught one too many times. But I'm telling everyone that you should follow the laws when you're out there. If someday you decide to cheat a little bit to make a few extra bucks then that will be an informed, conscious decision you will make as an experienced driver who understands the ramifications. But in the beginning you should follow the laws exactly. I'm telling you what I used to do because I want to help everyone understand the realities of life on the road and how things work in the trucking industry. And the reality for me was cheating the logbook pretty much on a daily basis for 15 years. That's how it was done back then.

So here's my overly-simplified explanation of what we used to do and why that 4 hour rule exists:

Say I started driving at 10:00 a.m., took my 30 minute break along the way, and finished driving at 9:30 p.m. That's 11 hours of driving so I have to take a 10 hour break before I can drive again. That means I can start driving again at 7:30 a.m. Simple enough.

BUT.....

What if I actually wrote down that I started driving at 4:00 a.m., took my break, and finished driving at 3:30 p.m. That means I could take a 10 hour break and start driving again at 1:30 a.m. instead of having to wait until 7:30 a.m.

Well with paper logs, that's exactly what a lot of us would do. We'd call it "backing up" our logs because we pushed everything back in time. We would leave our logbooks blank for the day and fill them in at the end of the day however we saw fit. So the 3 hours we wasted getting repairs done? Never happened. The two hours we sat at the shipper? Never happened. My logbook used to look the same almost every day because all I would normally put down is that I drove for 5 hours, took a 30 minute break, drove 5 more hours, and slept for 8 hours. Every day pretty much looked like that. Back in the day the logbook rules allowed you to drive for 10 hours, take an 8 hour break, and drive again for 10 hours. There was no 11 or 14 hour rule.

So it worked to our advantage to keep our logbook pages blank as long as possible. That way we would push the actual times we did everything back in time as far as possible, allowing us to drive again as soon as possible. We were also able to eliminate all of the wasted time along the way for repairs, meals, and delays at the customers.

Well obviously DOT was on to this so they passed a rule saying your logbook must be current within 4 hours of your last duty change. That way we couldn't just "push everything back in time" and clear ourselves for more driving time sooner.

There should have been an expression for the mad scramble we would have to do when we knew the DOT was about to look at our logbook. You had to hope you could grab the book, throw down some believable lies, and hand it to him without him being able to prove what you just did. You really had to be savvy to pull it off consistently but even then it wasn't perfect. I lost a few jobs because of too many logbook violations over the years but one phone call and I'd be on my way to the next job. Because companies knew that a driver getting caught with too many logbook violations was going to run as hard as he/she could. So one company would fire you to protect themselves from getting in trouble with the DOT but 100 companies would be waiting in line to hire you when you became available. That's why they came up with the current CSA system - to hold companies accountable for the drivers they hire. If you hire drivers with a poor record it's going to reflect badly upon the company's CSA score. So it wouldn't be as easy today to get a new job after getting fired for logbook violations from a previous job.

And lastly, most of you will be on electronic logs so you won't have to worry about any of this anyhow. And for the record I had 15 years of safe driving so I never hurt a soul by cheating the way I did.

So at least now you know it's because of guys like me that you have so many darn rules to follow today! If the old school drivers wouldn't have been so darn determined to turn as many miles as possible they wouldn't have to keep such a close eye on everyone the way they do today.

Yea the invention of the Loose Leaf Logbook was the best thing ever. You were able to keep you logs current up to the 4 hour limit and if nothing happened at the end of day you threw away that log and back the hours up on a new replacement log.

And I really miss the 5 and 5 split and the only down time was a total of 8 hours.

And I really miss the 5 and 5 split and the only down time was a total of 8 hours.

I totally agree. I thought the logbook rules we had back in the day were perfect. They allowed for a ton of flexibility so you could actually rest when you needed to rest and you could run when you were ready to run. 10 on, 8 off, split sleep berth, no 11, no 14. They should have left it alone. It worked perfectly for decades.