CSA Points Story & Questions! (And Heads Up To Others)

Topic 23038 | Page 1

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Larry K.'s Comment
member avatar

Hey guys,

So about 4 weeks back my wife was pulled over in California while bobtail for doing 6-10 over. The officer was extremely nice to her and all smiles. He told her that there is often confusion as to whether you must go 55 when bobtail or are allowed to go 65. He also noted that she was traveling with the flow of traffic (with other semi’s specifically) and then said he would not issue her a citation but would have to perform a level 2 inspection. We passed the inspection and went on our merry way believing all was well. Today, 28 days exactly from the traffic stop, she receives a message from our company saying she must come in for a mandatory safety briefing due to receiving 4 CSA points (which means 12 for first year) due to a 6-10mph over violation on her level 2 inspection. We then pulled out the inspection form and went to the FMCSA website and paid the $10 to pull her personal PSP only to discover that she has zero violations across the board. Both we and our company also noted that the code for 6-10 over is a “392.2 - SLLS2” but the officer left the “2” out after the “SLLS” on the inspection form. After further review we noticed that she is not even showing as having had an inspection (despite FMCSA stating that 95% of inspections are on the website within 21 days). More critical was the fact that nowhere on the PSP is there a category stating how many CSA points the driver has accrued. As far as we are able to tell a driver can not look up his actual CSA points but instead receives only a list of violations and then must look elsewhere to figure out how many points they are worth! (A company can look up their CSA points though!)

This then prompted me to pull my own PSP as I have had 2 inspections in the past year. A level 2 last year which was passed and in January of this year I received a level 1 at a scale house and also passed. In December of last year, the month prior to my level 1, we knew that at the end of the year we would need our updated vehicle registration. We informed our dispatcher of this throughout the month of January and he said we’d be routed to the terminal to update our permit book. As the month went on we kept reminding them, and they kept telling us we’d be routed to the terminal. At the end of the month...nothing. They then tell us that there is a 30 day grace period if we get pulled over and not to worry about. So sure enough I get that level 1 immediately after the 1st of the year. As I took my permit book to the officer/inspector I notified him of the situation immediately. He informed me that it wouldn’t be a problem especially since I notified him right up front. After passing the inspection he provides me with the level 1 form and tells me that he “noted the fact that I did not have a hard copy of the current inspection just so it would light a fire under my dispatchers ass”. Well, guess what? I check my PSP and there I see a violation for a 392.2RG missing registration. Again though, my PSP says absolutely nothing about points. I then begin performing internet searches to determine how many/if any CSA points a 392.2RG is worth and find absolutely zilch. Oh it’s referenced many times along with how many are given each year and how many result in OOS , but I can find NOTHING about points.

So the questions. Does anyone know if a 392.2RG results in CSA points and if so how many? Should we be anticipating that at some point my wife will eventually get that inspection and 12 points added to her PSP or do you think she’s out of the woods at 28 days? Do you think the fact that the officer miscoded the violation makes a difference? Does anyone know if it can be fought? (If so we have prepaid legal services and will fight one based upon miscoding the violation and the other with company messages stating that the registration thing would be fine.)

Gotta say, we are absolutely irate about this for several reasons! My wife was legitimately within 6-10 over, so that’s her bad, but it is our understanding that citations can be fought while violations on the inspection form cannot! If factual, that is some serious BS right there as ultimately the officer is flashing you smiles while simultaneously being judge, jury and executioner right on the roadside or in the inspection bay. It’s clear that both officers blew some serious smoke up our ***es which is a major chicken s**t thing to be doing on the part of the DOT! I am now reading that if a you are given a “warning”, but that warning is noted under “violations” on the inspection form, you are better off telling the officer “no thanks, I’ll take the citation”. Obviously the second reason to be ticked off is that I still have a months worth of Qualcomm messages in which we were informing our dispatch that we needed our update registration and they kept insuring us that all would be fine.

Answers to questions/thoughts/comments/personal experience welcome!

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

Qualcomm:

Omnitracs (a.k.a. Qualcomm) is a satellite-based messaging system with built-in GPS capabilities built by Qualcomm. It has a small computer screen and keyboard and is tied into the truck’s computer. It allows trucking companies to track where the driver is at, monitor the truck, and send and receive messages with the driver – similar to email.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Dispatcher:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Larry K.'s Comment
member avatar

Couple typo’s there sorry....we we’re reminding our company through December...not January. And he noted the missing registration not inspection.

Rainy D.'s Comment
member avatar

It sucks, but as the driver you are responsible for the vehicle and holding the registration. My company would have faxed me a copy or Fedexed it and i have a copy on my phone app i could.print out. However, im not sure that would suffice to prevent a violation either. Otherwise, a "The next load needs to be to the terminal or this truck is staying parked until you overnight expess me the valid cab card" message would be sent from my truck. No way would i have driven long without a cab card.

I have never gotten any tickets or violations so can't comment on the rest. sorry.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

Larry K.'s Comment
member avatar

Unfortunately, at the time, I was trusting the dispatcher when he assured me that we were still legal as we had a 30 day grace period. He even messaged us saying he was “pretty sure” about the grace period but would have to check, then sent us a follow up saying “yes, you’re good for 30 days”. In December we’d only been driving six months so took our dispatchers at their word. The infuriating part of this is that neither of us have received a ticket or violation either up to this point according to the officers involved. No citations were written in either case. I was told it was a “note to light a fire under the dispatchers” and my wife was told he was letting her off with a warning.

Dispatcher:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Dave Reid's Comment
member avatar

Hey guys,

So about 4 weeks back my wife was pulled over in California while bobtail for doing 6-10 over. The officer was extremely nice to her and all

Gotta say, we are absolutely irate about this for several reasons! My wife was legitimately within 6-10 over, so that’s her bad, but it is our understanding that citations can be fought while violations on the inspection form cannot! If factual, that is some serious BS right there as ultimately the officer is flashing you smiles while simultaneously being judge, jury and executioner right on the roadside or in the inspection bay. It’s clear that both officers blew some serious smoke up our ***es which is a major chicken s**t thing to be doing on the part of the DOT! I am now reading that if a you are given a “warning”, but that warning is noted under “violations” on the inspection form, you are better off telling the officer “no thanks, I’ll take the citation”.

The "no thanks, I'll take the citation" tactic might work out for you if you contest the ticket and are fortunate to get it dismissed or reduced to a non-moving violation. A 6-10 over speeding ticket written by a state highway cop is unlikely to be dismissed or reduced, but anything is possible. If it is dismissed, then you could get it removed from the CSA history. But if your efforts fail, then you'll have the CSA hit and the regular driving record it, plus the fine. So, you roll the dice and take your chances. Also, you cannot compel the officer to issue a ticket. As for the chicken s**t aspect, the officer might not be aware of the CSA issues. If it a state cop making the stop, if they are trained to do the DOT inspections, they are very likely going to do a Level II or III as a matter of course.

If a local cop makes the stop, they aren't likley going to do a DOT inspection and it is very likely that you can get the ticket reduced to a non-moving violation if you contest it...at least in a lot of states. This is because of how revenue from tickets is distributed in many areas.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

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