8/2 Split Question

I've read several posts here which seemed to explain everything but want to make sure I understand. Yesterday I started at noon and used 11 hours of my 14 and 8 of my 11. After being in the sleeper berth for 8, I get the 3 hours not used back. If I get up and drive 2 hours, spend an hour unloading and then take a 2 hour break, after the break I'll have 9 on both my 14 and my drive clocks?

Yesterday I started at noon and used 11 hours of my 14 and 8 of my 11. After being in the sleeper berth for 8, I get the 3 hours not used back.

Yes

If I get up and drive 2 hours, spend an hour unloading and then take a 2 hour break, after the break I'll have 9 on both my 14 and my drive clocks?

Exactly

And if you then drove say 5 hours, then went into sleeper for 8 again, you'd wake up with 6 on your 11 and 9 on your 14.

You could run split breaks consecutively if you wanted or needed to (8,2,8,2,8...), and your clock will always reset from the end of the previous break.

Turtle said:

And if you then drove say 5 hours, then went into sleeper for 8 again, you'd wake up with 6 on your 11 and 9 on your 14.

You could run split breaks consecutively if you wanted or needed to (8,2,8,2,8...), and your clock will always reset from the end of the previous break.

Would he have 6 on his 11 and 9 on his 14 after the subsequent 8 hours in the sleeper or after another 2 hour break?

Doesn't the 8 hour in the sleeper extend your current clock? In other words, would he have 4 on both his 11 and 14 after the 8 hours in the sleeper? Then if he drives 4 hours after the 8 hours in the sleeper and takes another 2 hour break, would he have 7 on his 11 and 10 on his 14? Full reset after the 8/2 split, but less the time driven between the 8 hours in the sleeper and 2 hour break?

Would he have 6 on his 11 and 9 on his 14 after the subsequent 8 hours in the sleeper or after another 2 hour break?

Only after the 8hr sleeper, which pauses the clock. A 2hr break would still leave him with 6hrs on the 11, but would only leave 7 on the 14 because the 14 keeps running, unless paused. The only thing to pause a clock is an 8hr sleeper.

Its incredibly difficult to explain splits. I try to simplify it by always thinking of a split as either 2 segments (2,8) or a series of segments (2,8,2,8,2..)

You must complete at least two segments. Once you do, your clock always resets at the end of the first segment. Then each subsequent segment will reset the clock at the end of the previous segment.

The High Road CDL Training Program section on splits is what got it to finally click for me. Its second nature to me now, but explaining it is a different story.

I am going through the High Road Training Program, but haven't got the point about the splits.

Reading this thread, for the first time made me realize the benefit: you get the full reset from the beginning of the first break, but only after you complete the second segment. You're always kicking the can down the road with successive 8/2 splits.

The reason why I asked about your example is that is looked like you used his first 2 hour break both to complete the first 8/2 segment and then used it again as part of the second 8 hours in the sleeper, based on your quote below.

You must complete at least two segments. Once you do, your clock always resets at the end of the first segment. Then each subsequent segment will reset the clock at the end of the previous segment.

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I was treating the 8/2 segments in segments: 8/2, then new 11/14 from the 8, less time between 8/2. Another 8/2; same result. But if its 8/2, new 11/14 from the 8, less time driven between the 8/2. Another 8, coupled with the 2 (both as the second of the first 8/2 AND and the first part of the second 8/2 split) resets your 11/14, less the time driven after the 2 but before the 8, doing them in a series seems to benefit you even more.

Its the consecutive 8/2 splits that makes it harder.

You got it. One segment can both complete one split and begin another when you run them in an alternating series. It isn't often we have to do this, but it's a great tool when you need it.

Okay, after reading the Regulations, which are linked and quoted below, I understand your example of why the 2 hour break counts twice.

The basic cycle under the HOS Rules is 11/14,10, rinse and repeat.

Under the Regulations the 8/2 is the "equivalent of 10 consecutive hours off duty," and converts the 11/14,10 cycle into an 5/7, 8; 6/7, 2 or 5/7, 2; 6/5, 8 cycle.

But the way the rule is written to where your new 11/14 begins after the first segment, the second part of the first 8/2 split also counts as the completion of the first segment AND the first part of the subsequent 2/8 split or "equivalent of 10 consecutive hours off duty."

But even though the "sandwich" segment counts twice, I did the math for non-spilt vs. 8/2 split and it totals the same.

FMCSA Rule 395.1

(A) The term “equivalent of at least 10 consecutive hours off duty” means a period of

(1) At least 8 but less than 10 consecutive hours in a sleeper berth , and

(2) A separate period of at least 2 but less than 10 consecutive hours either in the sleeper berth or off duty, or any combination thereof.

(B) Calculation of the driving limit includes all driving time; compliance must be re-calculated from the end of the first of the two periods used to comply with paragraph (g)(1)(ii)(A) of this section.

(C) Calculation of the 14-hour period in §395.3(a)(2) includes all time—or, for calculation of the 20-hour period in §395.1(h)(1)(ii) for drivers in Alaska, all on-duty time—except any sleeper-berth period of at least 8 but less than 10 consecutive hours and up to 2 hours riding in the passenger seat of a property-carrying vehicle moving on the highway immediately before or after a period of at least 8 but less than 10 consecutive hours in the sleeper berth; compliance must be recalculated from the end of the first of the two periods used to comply with the requirements of paragraph (g)(1)(ii)(A) of this section.

I hope I haven't confused anyone.