Told To Drive When It's Obvious You're Too Tired.

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Eric C. (Easy E)'s Comment
member avatar

From watching the video this guy posted, it sounds like he made very poor use of his additional 10 hour break. OK, I get it, you just got a full nights sleep, worked for 20 minutes, and now you have another 10 hrs to kill. From the video, it sounds like he was about 6 hrs into this drive, as he mentioned that he was well rested after the first break, but that was 17 hours earlier.

Now I am no slim jim for sure and am working at getting healthier, so what I am about to say may sound hypocritical... You have another 10 hours to kill... Go exercise for the next hour, eat a good meal, get a shower, then if you are not tired yet, exercise some more. Once you have physically exhausted yourself (and judging by his apparent size, that should not take too long) crawl into your bunk and go back to sleep. That should give your exhausted body a good 5-7 hours of needed rest. Wake up, and go go go!

OK maybe this is all to simplistic for me to get, but seriously, use your time wisely. OK Enough blah blah from the new CDL holder. ;-)

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
guyjax(Guy Hodges)'s Comment
member avatar

OK before I start so that everyone reading this will understand what I am about to flame truck drivers over go to the original link to the video in this thread and read through the comments section. You will see me near the top having a one sided conversation with Abe,the guy that posted the video, and Trucker Josh and a few other YouTube truck drivers. It's all at the top in the top comments......

I am about done with the ignorance in the trucking industry. Spent more than a few hours dealing with YouTube comments about this video. While the company was wrong for pushing the guy into driving the extra 160 miles to a swap NO ONE and I mean NO ONE can see that Abe has a lot of responsibility to accept for this. Everyone on his channel has the "Us against the big compnies" attitude. OH MY FREAKING GOD!!!!!!

No one wanted to hear about a drivers responsibilities when it comes to dealing with your company. For one when you accept a load you are agreeing that you have the legal hours to run the load safe and legal and that includes THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF SLEEP BEFORE Accepting a load.

This guy knew he had been a wake the prior 10 hours (2nd 10 hour break) and he accepted the load therefore saying he was rested and legal to run the load. But NO! Everyone want to only talk about what the company did wrong, even though the guy forced it on the company, and totally discount what the driver did in the first place. Are most drivers out there that blinded by the "US against Them" attitude that they fail to see their own short comings even if they are hitting them in the head with a freaking sldgehammer!?

While I know it's only a few ignorant people on YouTube I am beginning to wonder if it's not more wide spread than we thought.

How can a group of grown adults that drive trucks take such a childish attitude and throw person responsibility completely out of the window. I say this without hesitation that if the "Modern American Worker" ,to barrow the phrase from Brett, syndrome continues to spread the trucking industry is in for a very bad time in the future.

While I am totally against the government stepping in and regulating us to death ,which again is our fault, then I guess I can not complain when they throw more regulations at us just to make sure we are doing a job we agreed to do but are failing at an extraordinary rate.

We have had more than 65 years of self regulation in the trucking industry and as recent as 1980 the government had to step in due to a number of reasons but to name a few.....trucks falling apart and never getting fixed and log books or 3 sets of log books being in alot of trucks. You know what the sad thing is and I don't get it. Ever year around June and July the DOT holds random inspections all over the country inspecting well over 30,000+ trucks every year and you want to know the top two violations EVERY year......faulty brakes and log book violations. We know our jobs yet we fail to or refuse to do it correctly every year even though we all know the inspections are coming around again. I say "We" meaning all drivers.

But I am getting off topic. I am dumbfounded by the level personal responsibility a lot of drivers have allowed themselves and other drivers to get to. The sad part is even when you try to do the right thing you get told to mind your business or to stay out of it even if you are non confrontational and suggest that there might be a better way. I know what I would like to do to some of these drivers when they act stupid but carrying a black jack is illegal in most states.

OK so I feel a bit better. Since I doubt a few people can change the entire industry we can only do our part here at Trucking Truth and help guide a new generation into trucking and teach them the right way to do stuff.

Just for the record what Abe did in the video is not the right thing to do. He should never have accepted the load in the first place therefore putting his company in a position to have to threaten him into do his job.

Let me be very clear about this. When you accept a load from dispatch you are agreeing that you can do the trip in a safe and legal manner and that you are well rested. If your are not for whatever the reason it is your job and responsibility to tell your company right then that you are not and then figure out something that will be better. If you don't then things in the video are bound to happen.

And yes I did type this out completely on my phone with just two thumbs as backup. Even my thumbs are angry. smile.gif

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar

You're awesome Guyjax! That was a great post!

Everyone on his channel has the "Us against the big compnies" attitude....How can a group of grown adults that drive trucks take such a childish attitude and throw person responsibility completely out of the window.

It seems that every trucking-related website I've ever come across has a very large contingency of drivers that act kind of like politicians in that they vehemently defend any driver's position in any issue no matter what the issue or how little sense it makes. It's a mob-mentality. Like anytime a trucker complains about anything, half the drivers on the planet come swooping in to jump on board and turn it into a stream of rants against trucking as a career, trucking companies, and the industry in general.

I'm just as appalled as you are Guyjax that you hear experienced drivers defending this guy. For new drivers and others considering coming into this industry I can completely understand why at first glance this seems like the driver is doing the right thing and the company is wrong. That's the impression he's trying to give. But when you've been driving for a number of years, his agenda and his tactics should seem pathetic and obvious. But that "defend other drivers no matter what" mob mentality always seems to rule the day on most trucking websites.

And when you find yourself even considering crossing the line and want to purposely try sabotaging your own company and co-workers it's time to step away and find a new place to work or a new career. And it's definitely time to do some soul searching because you're getting ready to head down a path that ends badly for all involved, yourself especially.

While I know it's only a few ignorant people on YouTube I am beginning to wonder if it's not more wide spread than we thought.

I can honestly say I'm unaware of any other trucking-related sites that take the approach we do. In fact, I started this site seven years ago because there weren't any sites taking our approach. All there was and continues to be it seems are sites built for complaining and slandering.

And yes I did type this out completely on my phone with just two thumbs as backup. Even my thumbs are angry

That's impressive! Don't you want to get something with a real keyboard? Ya know those Chromebooks are super cheap - like $200 - sure makes typing easier!

smile.gif

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Jopa's Comment
member avatar
double-quotes-start.png

And unless you're part housecat, I don't know anybody who can sleep for 10 hours, be awake for 20 minutes, and go back to sleep for another 10 hours.

double-quotes-end.png

And unless you've got some serious health issues or you're the laziest human being imaginable, I don't know anyone that should need to! Is there a labor law or something about the makeup of human beings that says you have to wake up fresh and ready to go within 10 minutes of your work shift or you don't have to work that day? So he was up for 10 hours but wasn't working. Is it time for a full night's sleep again already???? Because I got up at 3:00 a.m. today and it's now 7:30. That's 4 1/2 hours. Does that mean I have 5 1/2 hours left in me and by 1:00 p.m. today I have to quit working and go to bed for the night?

wtf-2.gif

This dude slept 10 hours, worked 20 minutes, took yet another 10 hours off but was so tired he needed a third 10 hour break in a row to go back to bed??? And people are defending this guy????

He had said he couldn't sleep the second 10 hour break because he was too well-rested from the first 10 hour break. Now he's too tired from the second 10 hour break to do any work so he has to go to bed for a third 10 hour break???? My God there's only 24 hours in a day and this guy is going to be in bed or relaxing for 30 hours out of a period of 30 hours an 20 minutes!!!!

And I stress again - this dude was too tired to drive, but he wasn't too tired to setup the camera and secretly record the conversation where he purposely tried to get his co-workers in serious trouble and embarrass them for doing their job. They encouraged him to drive and when he refused they re-powered the load to someone else. That's exactly what they should have done. Then they gave him a service failure and took away his guarantee, which is exactly what they should have done because that's what he deserved.

Notice the quote that's showing before the video runs, "I was threatened with my job for being safe." Do you feel that's an accurate assessment of what happened?

First of all, they didn't threaten his job. They never said he would be fired. They said he's getting a service failure for this, which he 100% deserves, and if it happens again in the next 90 days he could lose his job because that's the company policy. He knew about this policy when he signed up with the company. That kind of stuff is emphasized strongly in orientation and you have to sign paperwork acknowledging this.

Second of all, he wasn't "being safe". He was being lazy!. If they would have told him, "Hey, we'll give you a $200 bonus if you'll make this run." I'd bet an arm and a leg he would have done it and this video never would have made it to air.

So this guy works 20 minutes in a 20+ hour period, decides that's all he can muster, then sets up the camera to get his co-workers in trouble when they did nothing wrong to him whatsoever, and then he lies saying, "I was threatened with my job for being safe."

He's lazy, he's manipulative, he's sneaky, he's inconsiderate, he blames others when he fails to do his own job, and he's quite full of sh*t. He is everything I can't stand about the Modern American Worker. Far too many people nowadays lack pride, integrity, loyalty, and a solid work ethic. They don't want to listen, they don't want to learn, they don't want to work hard, and above all else they don't take responsibility for themselves.

These are the type of people blasting trucking companies and the trucking industry for unfair practices. He thinks 30 minutes of work in a 24 hour period is too much to ask and he's going to assassinate the character of his company, the trucking industry as a whole, and any individuals along the way that disagree with him.

C'mon Bret, tell us what you REALLY think . . . quit sugar coating it!

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

guyjax(Guy Hodges)'s Comment
member avatar

Update to this video. Looks like this video is (the original video that started this thread) is getting a lot of attention and people are starting to get childish and name calling in the comments section and it's drawing lines between two sides. Those of us that know what should have been done and those that believe all big companies are out to get them.

Big Cat Trucker came out of YouTube retirement over this video!

A driver that used to do videos on YouTube responded to this video after he said he was done with YouTube. Abe ,the guy that posted the original video that caused this post, called out Big Cat Trucker and this link is to his response to Abe video.

In short pretty much said the say thing we have been saying. Don't drive tire.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar
it's drawing lines between two sides. Those of us that know what should have been done and those that believe all big companies are out to get them.

Exactly! Well said.

I'm still blown away by this whole thing. Two....count em - TWO ten hour breaks in a row. This guy is literally saying he was so well-rested from his first 10 hour break that he couldn't sleep during his second 10 hour break so he needs a third 10 hour break to rest and recover from his first two breaks.

Not to mention, he accepted the load assignment knowing exactly what his hours looked like and what his schedule would be. You're a professional. You're supposed to:

1) Be ready to work when it's time to work

2) Know your limitations

3) Don't commit to something if you can't handle it

But hey, we're all human, right? We all screw up sometimes. That's fine. What isn't fine is that after you screw up you then proceed to throw your company and your co-workers under the bus to cover up the fact that you failed to do your job as a professional.

Unacceptable.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Richard D.'s Comment
member avatar

This is really interesting to me. I have much to learn still.

Phil P.'s Comment
member avatar

I just want to say AMEN to this and a few other comments. I am an Baby Boomer and can see the US vs Them attitude that exists so much in today's population of younger people, the entitled expectations that can be so unrealistic at times. Never taking responsibility for themselves, or their actions, blaming others. Enough said, too much beating this dead horse.

OK before I start so that everyone reading this will understand what I am about to flame truck drivers over go to the original link to the video in this thread and read through the comments section. You will see me near the top having a one sided conversation with Abe,the guy that posted the video, and Trucker Josh and a few other YouTube truck drivers. It's all at the top in the top comments......

I am about done with the ignorance in the trucking industry. Spent more than a few hours dealing with YouTube comments about this video. While the company was wrong for pushing the guy into driving the extra 160 miles to a swap NO ONE and I mean NO ONE can see that Abe has a lot of responsibility to accept for this. Everyone on his channel has the "Us against the big compnies" attitude. OH MY FREAKING GOD!!!!!!

No one wanted to hear about a drivers responsibilities when it comes to dealing with your company. For one when you accept a load you are agreeing that you have the legal hours to run the load safe and legal and that includes THE APPROPRIATE AMOUNT OF SLEEP BEFORE Accepting a load.

This guy knew he had been a wake the prior 10 hours (2nd 10 hour break) and he accepted the load therefore saying he was rested and legal to run the load. But NO! Everyone want to only talk about what the company did wrong, even though the guy forced it on the company, and totally discount what the driver did in the first place. Are most drivers out there that blinded by the "US against Them" attitude that they fail to see their own short comings even if they are hitting them in the head with a freaking sldgehammer!?

While I know it's only a few ignorant people on YouTube I am beginning to wonder if it's not more wide spread than we thought.

How can a group of grown adults that drive trucks take such a childish attitude and throw person responsibility completely out of the window. I say this without hesitation that if the "Modern American Worker" ,to barrow the phrase from Brett, syndrome continues to spread the trucking industry is in for a very bad time in the future.

While I am totally against the government stepping in and regulating us to death ,which again is our fault, then I guess I can not complain when they throw more regulations at us just to make sure we are doing a job we agreed to do but are failing at an extraordinary rate.

We have had more than 65 years of self regulation in the trucking industry and as recent as 1980 the government had to step in due to a number of reasons but to name a few.....trucks falling apart and never getting fixed and log books or 3 sets of log books being in alot of trucks. You know what the sad thing is and I don't get it. Ever year around June and July the DOT holds random inspections all over the country inspecting well over 30,000+ trucks every year and you want to know the top two violations EVERY year......faulty brakes and log book violations. We know our jobs yet we fail to or refuse to do it correctly every year even though we all know the inspections are coming around again. I say "We" meaning all drivers.

But I am getting off topic. I am dumbfounded by the level personal responsibility a lot of drivers have allowed themselves and other drivers to get to. The sad part is even when you try to do the right thing you get told to mind your business or to stay out of it even if you are non confrontational and suggest that there might be a better way. I know what I would like to do to some of these drivers when they act stupid but carrying a black jack is illegal in most states.

OK so I feel a bit better. Since I doubt a few people can change the entire industry we can only do our part here at Trucking Truth and help guide a new generation into trucking and teach them the right way to do stuff.

Just for the record what Abe did in the video is not the right thing to do. He should never have accepted the load in the first place therefore putting his company in a position to have to threaten him into do his job.

Let me be very clear about this. When you accept a load from dispatch you are agreeing that you can do the trip in a safe and legal manner and that you are well rested. If your are not for whatever the reason it is your job and responsibility to tell your company right then that you are not and then figure out something that will be better. If you don't then things in the video are bound to happen.

And yes I did type this out completely on my phone with just two thumbs as backup. Even my thumbs are angry. smile.gif

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Tj M.'s Comment
member avatar

I think you misunderstood his situation, Brett. He took a full 10, got plenty of rest, and was then instructed by his company to drive 20 miles, drop his empty, and immediately go on another 10. And from the sounds of it, the company didn't exactly afford him the opportunity to try and sleep during that period, since he says his dispatcher called him several times throughout the day. He wasn't being lazy, unreasonable, or irresponsible. It wasn't his choice to only work for 20 minutes, and just because you've been off duty for 10 hours doesn't mean you've been asleep for any or all of that time. And unless you're part housecat, I don't know anybody who can sleep for 10 hours, be awake for 20 minutes, and go back to sleep for another 10 hours.

That was how I understood it also, now, he could be a chronic about it and pull that kinda stuff far too often, I don't know, but what you said is how I understood him.

Dispatcher:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar

You guys, do the math for God's sake! He sat for 20 hours and was asked to drive 160 miles. That's 2 1/2 hours of work on 20 HOURS of rest. By Federal law a truck driver is required to be given 10 hours of rest for every 14 hours that he/she works. You can not work more than 70 hours in 8 days and you can not drive more than 11 hours in any 14 hour period, right?

Ok, this guy was asked to drive 160 miles on 20 HOURS of rest. Please, please tell me that you're capable of putting in 2 1/2 hours of work a day aren't you?

Here's part of a comment I just left for him that gives you some idea of the magnitude of his screw-up and some of the things this guy should have done differently:

You couldn't muster 160 miles on 20 hours of rest. You weren't prepared to work when it was time to do your job. You accepted a load then refused to run it. You failed to notify dispatch properly when you were given your schedule 10 hours earlier so they could make plans. Then you tried throwing your company and co-workers under the bus to cover up the fact that you simply refused to do your job.

Here's part of another comment I left when debating this with another experienced driver who to this point is still kinda on the driver's side of it:

Look, this dude knew exactly what he was doing by refusing to drive. You know that. Why didn't he just yank a wire out of the engine or slash a steer tire and say the truck is broke down? Why didn't he say he was sick and throwing up all over the place? Why didn't he do any of a million things he could have done to get out working without being questioned? He's been around long enough to know the tricks. He didn't want to use those tricks. He had an agenda.

He purposely refused to drive, knowing that was unacceptable under the circumstances and would get a big rise out of dispatch. Then he'd take advantage of any slip-ups they might make by setting up the video camera, getting "the goods" on his company, get out of working, and get a bunch of attention for his YouTube channel all at the same time. If they tried to fire him he figured he had the video to protect him. If things didn't go his way he knew the "poor me" act would draw a TON of attention to his YouTube channel. One way or another he figured he had it covered. He wouldn't have to work and he wouldn't lose his job if he played his cards right.

And then there's the 2500 miles per week guarantee his company pays, were you aware of that? What if he could LEGITIMATELY get out of working and yet remain eligible for the guarantee? He would do less work, make more money, get tons of attention for his YouTube channel, and have the goods on his company if everything went well. Even if it didn't he figured he'd come out alright in the end.

I've gotta say...I'm really surprised his act has worked on so many experienced drivers. I can understand people being swayed if they didn't know trucking the way we do. But you guys have seen a million clowns out there who don't want to work. You know the garbage they pull. When you look at this entire situation closely it all comes unraveled for him. This was clearly premeditated. Abe clearly had an agenda. And a video camera.

He may have been too tired to hold the steering wheel but thank God he wasn't too tired to contrive his plan, setup the camera, and blackmail his company or we would have missed out on a lot of good debating now wouldn't we???? :-) 

This driver had also mentioned that night dispatch has called the police several times to go check on him in the past few months. How many times has your boss had to call the police to come check up on you because you failed to do your job and your company didn't trust what you were saying?

I talk all the time about how long it takes to establish a good reputation with dispatch. When you work hard and get the job done safely day in and day out your company will trust you and give you all the help in the world. They'll give you special favors sometimes. They'll give you the benefit of the doubt. They'll work with you. And they certainly will not call the police on you.

This guy gets none of that. Instead he gets the police called on him regularly because they don't trust him and he isn't doing his job. If he decides he can't work he knows he's gotta get out the video camera in hopes he can sucker them into saying the wrong thing so he can keep his job. If he didn't think his job was in jeopardy, none of that would have been necessary.

And did you notice that when they said they were giving him a service failure and taking away his guarantee he didn't even attempt to argue? He didn't flinch. Not a bit surprised. Why? Because he knew he was wrong and deserved the service failure and the removal of the guarantee.

I know I'm really putting myself out there by taking such a hard line on this but it's because I've been around long enough to know when I'm right about something and I'm right about this guy. It's also a huge opportunity to teach everyone that's new to the trucking industry how things work out there, what's expected of you, what's not to be expected of you, and just how many "gray areas" there are in trucking.

Can a driver be wrong for refusing to drive tired? Nope. You should never drive tired. But not being ready to work when you know you're scheduled to work isn't an excuse in trucking anymore than it is anywhere else.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

EPU:

Electric Auxiliary Power Units

Electric APUs have started gaining acceptance. These electric APUs use battery packs instead of the diesel engine on traditional APUs as a source of power. The APU's battery pack is charged when the truck is in motion. When the truck is idle, the stored energy in the battery pack is then used to power an air conditioner, heater, and other devices

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