Western Express Lease Purchase....thoughts???

Western Express has both Van and Flatbed contractors and both have ample opportunity to make great money while fulfilling their dreams of ownership. The average pay is like a previous blogger quoted in the $1.45 - $1.85 range per mile and Western also pays FULL rate on empty miles as well, which is a real game changer in this industry. The example above stated that 2500 miles would not be profitable, but a 2500 mile week actually can be very profitable with certain elements in place. 2500 miles would equate to approximately $3650.00 in revenue, and would require approximately 400 gallons in fuel at $3.58 per gallon average this week. So you business calculation would be: Your business: $3650.00 Your Fuel Cost: $1432.00 (based on 6.25 mpg) Your Truck Pkg: $700.00 (est) Take home pay: $1518.00

David, you seem like such a well spoken guy that I am wondering if you are a recruiter for Western Express. Just curious about the above numbers you threw out. It seems to me you left out a lot of places where money needs to go like insurance, maintenance escrow accounts, tires, fuel taxes, IFTA... I could keep going. You make it sound like a cake walk. I understand the leasing programs, and I am not saying that Western's is bad, in fact I consider it better than many, but I also understand that this is a way for Western to get some unused trucks on the road turning dollars, and they get the added benefit of making money off of the maintenance and repairs on those previously idle trucks.

I, for one, know how to do the math, and I can never seem to pencil it out where it makes any sense to me. I'm not saying everyone must follow my lead, but why take the untenable risk when the only plus seems to be that you will end up with a worn out tractor in your driveway one day for your efforts?

....fulfilling their dreams of ownership....a real game changer in this industry....

David, you seem like such a well spoken guy that I am wondering if you are a recruiter for Western Express.

Old School, I think this is more of a high-level marketing effort. Although the pitch comes complete with a moldy sales motivation quote that I first heard in the late '70s when my brother started selling encyclopedias door-to-door, the aim seems to be to get information that counters global objections to leasing into the search engine results in order to create sufficient doubt in the target audience such that any negative impact to sales will be minimized.

David, when you get tired of marketing and all the stress of hitting those goals that go up just before you're about to hit it big, consider a career driving a truck. It's a lot more rewarding than surfing social media and trying to figure out how to counter negative impressions that pop up even after the SEO guys take a run at it.

The things that you have mentioned are very good questions and you brought up a few very good concerns. To take them one at a time.... the estimated truck package is $700.00 INCLUDING the insurance, permits, plates, tags, trailer, QUALCOMM , IFTA, fuel taxes, escrow and maintenance account. This All Inclusive is actually all inclusive with the obvious exception of fuel and income taxes. You are on to something with the equipment use objective, this program is a utility based program where a guy with no credit can purchase a truck of their own while moving freight for the company. The profit is a by-product of moving freight, not selling a truck. As I previously stated owning a truck and lease purchase is definitely not for everyone. I am a strong believer in the motivation of one's own ability to own a business.... its still the American dream. Some people are "wired" to be the boss, and some are not, Lease Purchase just allows that to happen if its in their DNA.

UNLIKE most lease purchase plans, Western's actually finances the entire lease from first to last payment, no balloon! For an example: International Prostar 2011 model retail price would hover in the $55,000 - $60,000 range, where the auction pricing would be in the $48,000 - $53,000 range. Western is selling them at a flat $50,000 including 2 year, 200,000 mile warranty included. With a 4 cpm escrow savings, this truck is paid for in approximately 18 - 20 months. in 2 - 2.5 years the FMV would still be in the $27,000 - $32,000 range and approximately 350,000 - 500,000 miles on it. That being said, its foolish to think that everyone will be successful at owning their own business, but when you consider the advantages of Leasing vs. Company Employee, it is merely a vehicle for those that are motivated and equipped to determine their own path. Successful people will always find a way to be successful not matter what profession they chose.

True.... I am a strong believer in the program Western has created, but above all, I am a believer in Lease-to-Own programs that make sense. I believe in owning your own business, and determining your own destiny. If you don't believe the same things, its not wrong, it just means we are wired differently. Unlike some of the comments on here, I believe that it is just as important for you to defend your position as to why a "company" driver is a better path for you.... while I defend why "Lease Purchase & Owner Operator" is my better path. We can agree to disagree...... but respectfully.

Western Express has both Van and Flatbed contractors and both have ample opportunity to make great money while fulfilling their dreams of ownership. The average pay is like a previous blogger quoted in the $1.45 - $1.85 range per mile and Western also pays FULL rate on empty miles as well, which is a real game changer in this industry. The example above stated that 2500 miles would not be profitable, but a 2500 mile week actually can be very profitable with certain elements in place. 2500 miles would equate to approximately $3650.00 in revenue, and would require approximately 400 gallons in fuel at $3.58 per gallon average this week. So you business calculation would be: Your business: $3650.00 Your Fuel Cost: $1432.00 (based on 6.25 mpg) Your Truck Pkg: $700.00 (est) Take home pay: $1518.00

David, you seem like such a well spoken guy that I am wondering if you are a recruiter for Western Express. Just curious about the above numbers you threw out. It seems to me you left out a lot of places where money needs to go like insurance, maintenance escrow accounts, tires, fuel taxes, IFTA... I could keep going. You make it sound like a cake walk. I understand the leasing programs, and I am not saying that Western's is bad, in fact I consider it better than many, but I also understand that this is a way for Western to get some unused trucks on the road turning dollars, and they get the added benefit of making money off of the maintenance and repairs on those previously idle trucks.

I, for one, know how to do the math, and I can never seem to pencil it out where it makes any sense to me. I'm not saying everyone must follow my lead, but why take the untenable risk when the only plus seems to be that you will end up with a worn out tractor in your driveway one day for your efforts?

Some people are "wired" to be the boss, and some are not, Lease Purchase just allows that to happen if its in their DNA.

David, this is where we would collide with each other in your support of the lease programs. You see, I am wired that way, I was a business owner for thirty years, and signed more paychecks than I care to remember. This is the beauty of truck driving to me, a person who is wired that way can be very successful as a company driver because he has the drive and determination to make things happen in his favor. Truck driving is a very favorable career for that type of personality. When I was in custom manufacturing I never tried to find people to lease equipment from me so they could be my competitors. The only way a business would do that is if it was sure to benefit their bottom line, they don't do it because they want other to enjoy the pride and benefits of truck ownership.

I have enjoyed having you in here - you have certainly been respectful and knowledgeable, and I enjoy a good debate without a bunch of silly name calling. I just haven't figured out your motivation yet, and I'm not sure I believe that it is just your "wiring".

Back at you Old School! This has been very productive in dissecting the why's and why not's of ownership vs. employee. I do very much enjoy the debate of two people defending good points and good positions. For clarity, I didn't mean you were "wired" differently.... that phrase was directed at those that are driven to be successful vs. those that are overly content. As a previous business owner we share a lot of the same "wiring".

The reasoning for the equipment lease is to utilize idle equipment while producing opportunity for a partnership, not a competitor. If both parties gain from the experience then a good partnership is formed, but in too many lease programs it becomes too one sided. This is especially true in the Lease-Lease programs that sprang up everywhere in the mid-1990's where one side owns a truck and the other pays for it, only one side truly gains. When you have a true Lease-to-Own, a contractor can earn a very good living while on his path to ownership. Now in 2014 its very difficult for a driver to find a true Lease-to-Own program that is legitimately a Lease-to-Own. Sure, you can find a "Lease Purchase Program" anywhere you turn, but they are actually just the wolf in sheep's clothing with a $50,000 balloon. The thing that made Western's program very unique in this day and age was the fact that it was a real purchase program.

We'll talk again soon! David

Some people are "wired" to be the boss, and some are not, Lease Purchase just allows that to happen if its in their DNA.

David, this is where we would collide with each other in your support of the lease programs. You see, I am wired that way, I was a business owner for thirty years, and signed more paychecks than I care to remember. This is the beauty of truck driving to me, a person who is wired that way can be very successful as a company driver because he has the drive and determination to make things happen in his favor. Truck driving is a very favorable career for that type of personality. When I was in custom manufacturing I never tried to find people to lease equipment from me so they could be my competitors. The only way a business would do that is if it was sure to benefit their bottom line, they don't do it because they want other to enjoy the pride and benefits of truck ownership.

I have enjoyed having you in here - you have certainly been respectful and knowledgeable, and I enjoy a good debate without a bunch of silly name calling. I just haven't figured out your motivation yet, and I'm not sure I believe that it is just your "wiring".

David while in business all those years the two biggest things that helped me succeed were my ability to cut expenses, and to recognize the places where I was throwing good money after bad money, i.e. bad investments.

This is why I love being a hard working successful company driver - it cuts out all the unexpected expenses, and trust me I know about them, I once owned six big rigs at one time.

The numbers you gave out sound much better than most lease programs I have seen, but if I understand your passing reference to the .04 CPM escrow, it sounds to me like the lessee is paying approximately somewhere in the neighborhood of 2,800.00 - 3,100.00 per month for the total package and he is working toward paying off a 50,000 dollar truck. So in approximately 18 - 20 months he has paid close to 55,000 dollars for an asset that is now worth, "in your estimation", 20 - 30 thousand? You see why I don't encourage this type of deal?

Now to be fair, I understand how business works, and he now has an asset that he can use to earn more money without the expenses involved in the payments. That of course, is the sweet spot in this plan, but my experiences have been that a truck at that age is very costly indeed to keep on the road safely and profitably, and even if he can manage to keep it up for two more years, he is then saddled with the need for another truck with a new set of payments. That is where he is fortunate indeed if he comes out with a "wash" of monies spent compared with monies gained. There is an economic law that is hard to get past - that old booger of "returns to means" can always raise it's head at any time, and it doesn't bend easily.

Old School, David isn't a just a recruiter for Western Express, he's the head of the lease/purchase program. It's HIS baby.

My neighbor is leasing a truck from them (which is how I know David's name and have heard of him) and the things I have heard do not paint as rosy a picture as he does. The one thing I do HAVE to counter though, and would love for him to answer, is that the estimated $700 a week truck package payment includes the escrow amounts. I am very good at math, so my neighbor has had me going over his settlement sheets to look for errors. I have to say that I have added the figures and $700 a week on an almost exactly 2500 mile week, does not in ANY way include the escrow amounts. They add a considerable amount more to what comes out of the driver's pay. And the figures of 1.45 to 1.85 a mile? Somebody must be getting lucky somewhere, because even with fuel surcharge, his rate per mile has never reached that.

I'm sure there are drivers that do make this program work, but when they have the drivers sitting as much as my neighbor does and various other things I won't bother to list, this lease/purchase program is certainly NOT as easy as David would have drivers believe. They could tell him that himself, if he ever answered his phone calls or returned his messages.

Aha, the truth comes out!

I'm not gonna gloat or anything, but I'm so glad you jumped into this little discussion that seemed to have gone away.

We try our best to dissuade folks from these programs because the numbers are disingenuous. But the folks who try and sell the drivers on it are mighty persistent. The little secret that should be obvious, but it succeeds due to the truck drivers ego is that the truck ownership is what is such a costly beast to the trucking industry. So when they strategize and try to figure out how to formulate a plan to cut that uncontrollable cost they just figure they can pass it off to the driver who thinks it would be cool to own his own truck. Then it's all gravy for the trucking company and mostly nightmare for the driver.

Welcome to the forum Saffe!

I dont understand the draw of these lease programs. You're basically buying 90% of the company's liability with debt. They keep the asset, the truck, to the point where its value has depreciated so much they would have gotten rid of it anyway. Then you take it off their hands, they have a lot more off its sale than if they had sold it at this stage. Now they are still collecting a bit of extra scratch when you start coming in for repairs more frequently.

On top of that, you arent really running your own business like they tell you. You are still driving a company truck for a company. If you can't hire, fire, and l tell other people what to do, you're not a boss. You can refuse loads but you can't pick them, you can't choose your customers, you can't choose your target market, you cant change anything about the company. A lease operator is not a businessman, just a company driver who takes on pointless risk and more work so he can make the same or less money and have a false sense that he is more accomplished than he really is ,

Notice that David talked a lot more about the emotional/egoist side than he did about the hard data of how much the driver and thecompany have in thei pockets at the end of the year because of this arrangement.

I may not be a driver myself yet, but you don't to be to smell a rotten deal and these lease programs are pretty rank.