Conflicting Info About Logging HOS

Topic 19071 | Page 1

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Tim H.'s Comment
member avatar

School suggested paper back up logbook company says it "dual logging" and illegal. Downloaded fmcsa guide and don't see any mention of this. What's the rule or where can I find it?

Logbook:

A written or electronic record of a driver's duty status which must be maintained at all times. The driver records the amount of time spent driving, on-duty not driving, in the sleeper berth, or off duty. The enforcement of the Hours Of Service Rules (HOS) are based upon the entries put in a driver's logbook.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Michael V.'s Comment
member avatar

You carry a paper log book as a back up in case your elog breaks. You can't fill it out if your elog is working.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Road training at least for the bigger companies, run elogs and a paper duplicate for "training purposes only". Important delineation.

Otherwise once beyond training and running solo, as Michael V stated, have the paper log sheets as a backup in the event elogs are down. This does happen, as such both are taught.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Elogs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Tim H.'s Comment
member avatar

I'm aware we need to carry paper logs and need to know how to record duty status in case of elog failure. My concern is I was given info from someone who I would expect to give accurate info. And I don't want to pass on inaccurate info myself. I looked at the fmcsr book (pdf) section of HOS didn't see it there. Could have missed it.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar

I'm aware we need to carry paper logs and need to know how to record duty status in case of elog failure. My concern is I was given info from someone who I would expect to give accurate info. And I don't want to pass on inaccurate info myself. I looked at the fmcsr book (pdf) section of HOS didn't see it there. Could have missed it.

What they're talking about - is running MULTIPLE PAPER LOG BOOKS SIMULTANEOUSLY.

A frequent trick of "outlaw truckers" is to run 2 logs (or 3) - so they can just keep running.

Running a "backup log" during training, is to gather the necessary skills to run a paper log in the event your E-Logs goes down. If you are pulled in/over during your training, you will be showing them your E-LOG - that is the "official record"

I'm not sure if you are made to "sign" your paper logs during the "dual logging/training period". A log is not considered "official", until it is actually SIGNED.

There may not actually be a "specific FMCSA Reg" about dual logging (the outlaw kind), but if you are CAUGHT, it's considered LOG FALSIFICATION and you will likely be put OOS until you take at least 10 hour break and can actually PROVE that you are back in HOS compliance. They could (theoretically) even make you take a 34 reset - if your pirate logs are so indecipherable, that they can't determine if you are over on your 70 hour clock.

This all goes away in Dec - when EVERYONE is required to be on E-Logs (with ELD - folks running the old style E-Log devices have until 12/19 to upgrade their devices).

Rick

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Tim, I'll answer you in a different way.

No idea of the legality of it. From a practical perspective, it's unnecessary. The existence of a working electronic log will supersede a paper backup. Not sure if you misunderstood the source from your school, but maintaing paper logs while dispatched under a functioning elog system is totally redundant, serves no useful purpose and is a colossal waste of time. For training purposes, it's necessary, but not once you are on your own.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

Bill F.'s Comment
member avatar

Our paper logs in school and company training are actually labelled "Practice Log". To avoid any confusion from a DOT officer. Even though I can't imagine being successfully ticketed for running multiple logs while with an instructor during training.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Tim H.'s Comment
member avatar

Thanks G-town. I was thinking paper in conjunction with electronic would be good CYA practice. Company told us if ever elog is issue they provide the back up and then use paper until fixed. I can see it being redundant with functioning elog but was thinking in terms of covering my backside ("yes sir I have those records right here") but don't need to. I've heard of truckers running false (dual) logs during my fathers days OTR to keep running. I'm striving to be a professional in this industry and want to be familiar with the facts and to develop good professional practices to stay in compliance and be safe at all times.

Elog:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

OTR:

Over The Road

OTR driving normally means you'll be hauling freight to various customers throughout your company's hauling region. It often entails being gone from home for two to three weeks at a time.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
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