Isn't Regulation A Good Thing?

Topic 24550 | Page 3

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Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
member avatar

Sid, I'm not trying to pick on you but as an O/O, you of anyone should absolutely care what raised the rates and what the market is doing because it will effect you the most.

Michael S.'s Comment
member avatar
What I meant was available drive hours was lost. A lot of it.

Absolutely not true the available hours didnt change at all, all that changed was the ability to cheat on your logs was eliminated, and that's a good thing!

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Chris wrote:

The Federal mandates came about because of increasing accidents from drivers who were found to be in violation of HOS. A good example was the Wal-Mart Driver who had the accident with Comedian Tracy Morgan in New Jersey back in 2015. I found a CBS News report on Youtube stated the driver had driven from his home in Georgia to a Wal-Mart DC in Delaware before his run started and according to the report, the NTSB stated the Driver was already in violation of HOS by the time he had gotten on the road.

Chris I do not agree with your example supporting the e-logs mandate. Walmart Private Fleet (WMPF) has a sophisticated electronic logging system on all of their trucks that predates the new law by at least 7 years. WMPF is arguably one of the stricter carriers when it comes to driver compliance.

The Walmart driver in question violated the unenforceable law of common sense. Meaning; implied when off-duty you are to have adequate rest before reporting to work. He also lied when asked the question by his dispatcher; “are you physically able to drive?” IMO he wasn’t.

However, he did not violate any HOS law. He was off-duty, not under any dispatch. He chose to drive from a graduation party in Virginia to his Walmart GM DC in Smyrna DE. This falls outside of any HOS law and can be loosely considered a commute. When he reported for duty he started with a fresh 70/14 hour clock. This is no different than an off-duty driver, in their sleeper, gaming all night long and then being dispatched the next morning with a 12 hour day ahead of them. It happens. Short of collaring us with electronic monitors, there is no way to enforce lack of adequate rest for a person who wrongly chooses otherwise. It’s about personal and professional responsibility.

Although I am not condoning his lack of common sense or absolving him from responsibility, there is nothing any e-log system could have legally recorded that would have prevented him from driving. There is absolutely no excuse worthy of what he did. His mistake was catastrophic and had a rippling effect for all of us, especially those of us pulling Walmart branded trailers every day. We became targets for increased enforcement and elevated public scrutiny.

In the end, a driver is both responsible for getting adequate rest and ensuring they are fit to drive when called upon.

Dispatcher:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Michael S.'s Comment
member avatar

Chris wrote:

double-quotes-start.png

The Federal mandates came about because of increasing accidents from drivers who were found to be in violation of HOS. A good example was the Wal-Mart Driver who had the accident with Comedian Tracy Morgan in New Jersey back in 2015. I found a CBS News report on Youtube stated the driver had driven from his home in Georgia to a Wal-Mart DC in Delaware before his run started and according to the report, the NTSB stated the Driver was already in violation of HOS by the time he had gotten on the road.

double-quotes-end.png

Chris I do not agree with your example supporting the e-logs mandate. Walmart Private Fleet (WMPF) has a sophisticated electronic logging system on all of their trucks that predates the new law by at least 7 years. WMPF is arguably one of the stricter carriers when it comes to driver compliance.

The Walmart driver in question violated the unenforceable law of common sense. Meaning; implied when off-duty you are to have adequate rest before reporting to work. He also lied when asked the question by his dispatcher; “are you physically able to drive?” IMO he wasn’t.

However, he did not violate any HOS law. He was off-duty, not under any dispatch. He chose to drive from a graduation party in Virginia to his Walmart GM DC in Smyrna DE. This falls outside of any HOS law and can be loosely considered a commute. When he reported for duty he started with a fresh 70/14 hour clock. This is no different than an off-duty driver, in their sleeper, gaming all night long and then being dispatched the next morning with a 12 hour day ahead of them. It happens. Short of collaring us with electronic monitors, there is no way to enforce lack of adequate rest for a person who wrongly chooses otherwise. It’s about personal and professional responsibility.

Although I am not condoning his lack of common sense or absolving him from responsibility, there is nothing any e-log system could have legally recorded that would have prevented him from driving. There is absolutely no excuse worthy of what he did. His mistake was catastrophic and had a rippling effect for all of us, especially those of us pulling Walmart branded trailers every day. We became targets for increased enforcement and elevated public scrutiny.

In the end, a driver is both responsible for getting adequate rest and ensuring they are fit to drive when called upon.

Very, very well said and explained G-town

Dispatcher:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Chris L's Comment
member avatar

Chris wrote:

double-quotes-start.png

The Federal mandates came about because of increasing accidents from drivers who were found to be in violation of HOS. A good example was the Wal-Mart Driver who had the accident with Comedian Tracy Morgan in New Jersey back in 2015. I found a CBS News report on Youtube stated the driver had driven from his home in Georgia to a Wal-Mart DC in Delaware before his run started and according to the report, the NTSB stated the Driver was already in violation of HOS by the time he had gotten on the road.

double-quotes-end.png

Chris I do not agree with your example supporting the e-logs mandate. Walmart Private Fleet (WMPF) has a sophisticated electronic logging system on all of their trucks that predates the new law by at least 7 years. WMPF is arguably one of the stricter carriers when it comes to driver compliance.

The Walmart driver in question violated the unenforceable law of common sense. Meaning; implied when off-duty you are to have adequate rest before reporting to work. He also lied when asked the question by his dispatcher; “are you physically able to drive?” IMO he wasn’t.

However, he did not violate any HOS law. He was off-duty, not under any dispatch. He chose to drive from a graduation party in Virginia to his Walmart GM DC in Smyrna DE. This falls outside of any HOS law and can be loosely considered a commute. When he reported for duty he started with a fresh 70/14 hour clock. This is no different than an off-duty driver, in their sleeper, gaming all night long and then being dispatched the next morning with a 12 hour day ahead of them. It happens. Short of collaring us with electronic monitors, there is no way to enforce lack of adequate rest for a person who wrongly chooses otherwise. It’s about personal and professional responsibility.

Although I am not condoning his lack of common sense or absolving him from responsibility, there is nothing any e-log system could have legally recorded that would have prevented him from driving. There is absolutely no excuse worthy of what he did. His mistake was catastrophic and had a rippling effect for all of us, especially those of us pulling Walmart branded trailers every day. We became targets for increased enforcement and elevated public scrutiny.

In the end, a driver is both responsible for getting adequate rest and ensuring they are fit to drive when called upon.

Like I said I'm a bit naïve when it comes to the trucking world and I have lot's to still learn. Of course the news report only highlights the faults and choices of the driver. One part of the report stated that the driver was already at his 14th HOS mark when the accident occurred. I guess it comes down to perception of the general public all they see is this horrible accident caused by a driver who was in violation of the HOS rule. Of course the cries came out for more regulation on the trucking industry as the old saying goes they (The Press) doesn't report on drivers doing the right thing only the wrong thing.

Dispatcher:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

double-quotes-start.png

Chris wrote:

double-quotes-start.png

double-quotes-start.png

The Federal mandates came about because of increasing accidents from drivers who were found to be in violation of HOS. A good example was the Wal-Mart Driver who had the accident with Comedian Tracy Morgan in New Jersey back in 2015. I found a CBS News report on Youtube stated the driver had driven from his home in Georgia to a Wal-Mart DC in Delaware before his run started and according to the report, the NTSB stated the Driver was already in violation of HOS by the time he had gotten on the road.

double-quotes-end.png

double-quotes-end.png

Chris I do not agree with your example supporting the e-logs mandate. Walmart Private Fleet (WMPF) has a sophisticated electronic logging system on all of their trucks that predates the new law by at least 7 years. WMPF is arguably one of the stricter carriers when it comes to driver compliance.

The Walmart driver in question violated the unenforceable law of common sense. Meaning; implied when off-duty you are to have adequate rest before reporting to work. He also lied when asked the question by his dispatcher; “are you physically able to drive?” IMO he wasn’t.

However, he did not violate any HOS law. He was off-duty, not under any dispatch. He chose to drive from a graduation party in Virginia to his Walmart GM DC in Smyrna DE. This falls outside of any HOS law and can be loosely considered a commute. When he reported for duty he started with a fresh 70/14 hour clock. This is no different than an off-duty driver, in their sleeper, gaming all night long and then being dispatched the next morning with a 12 hour day ahead of them. It happens. Short of collaring us with electronic monitors, there is no way to enforce lack of adequate rest for a person who wrongly chooses otherwise. It’s about personal and professional responsibility.

Although I am not condoning his lack of common sense or absolving him from responsibility, there is nothing any e-log system could have legally recorded that would have prevented him from driving. There is absolutely no excuse worthy of what he did. His mistake was catastrophic and had a rippling effect for all of us, especially those of us pulling Walmart branded trailers every day. We became targets for increased enforcement and elevated public scrutiny.

In the end, a driver is both responsible for getting adequate rest and ensuring they are fit to drive when called upon.

double-quotes-end.png

Like I said I'm a bit naïve when it comes to the trucking world and I have lot's to still learn. Of course the news report only highlights the faults and choices of the driver. One part of the report stated that the driver was already at his 14th HOS mark when the accident occurred. I guess it comes down to perception of the general public all they see is this horrible accident caused by a driver who was in violation of the HOS rule. Of course the cries came out for more regulation on the trucking industry as the old saying goes they (The Press) doesn't report on drivers doing the right thing only the wrong thing.

Chris this website is about Truth and sharing relevant experience. Please carefully reread what I wrote and try to build-upon your knowledge base.

Again, the WMPF driver was not in violation of his 14, because the last log update he posted on his e-log was, “off-duty”. He was on a 34 hour reset, had several days off leading up to the accident. I know for a fact when he logged-in before he drove that night, he had a fresh 14 and a full 70.

Dispatcher:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Chris L's Comment
member avatar

Chris this website is about Truth and sharing relevant experience. Please carefully reread what I wrote and try to build-upon your knowledge base.

Again, the WMPF driver was not in violation of his 14, because the last log update he posted on his e-log was, “off-duty”. He was on a 34 hour reset, had several days off leading up to the accident. I know for a fact when he logged-in before he drove that night, he had a fresh 14 and a full 70.

G-Man I get where you are coming at about sharing relevant experience I totally agree. I am just referring to the information that is available to the public I only pointed out that the CBS new report stated the driver has already been "On duty" for 14 hours when the crash happened that is what they reported. I also searched for and found the NTSB New release about the crash and it stated:" The National Transportation Safety Board has determined that the probable cause of the accident near Cranbury, New Jersey, involving a truck, a limo van, and four other vehicles, was the truck driver’s fatigue, which resulted in his delayed braking to avoid traffic that was slowing and stopped for an active work zone. Also causal to the accident was the driver’s operation of the truck at a speed in excess of the posted limit for the work zone area. Contributing to the severity of the injuries was the fact that the passengers in the passenger compartment of the limo van were not using available seat belts and properly adjusted head restraints." also it addressed the HOS: “Hours-of-service rules cannot address what drivers do on their own time,” said NTSB Chairman Christopher A. Hart. “This driver had been on duty 13 ½ hours of a 14-hour workday, but had been awake more than 28 hours at the time of the crash. Fatigue management programs can help.”

The NTSB report also goes on the fault the Limo company for the lack of use of available safety restraints: "The NTSB also found that the serious injuries to the occupants seated in the passenger compartment of the limo van were due in part to their failure to use available seat belts and properly adjusted head restraints. The NTSB reiterated a recommendation to the FMCSA to require operators to give pretrip safety briefings to passengers concerning the importance of safety equipment and how to exit the vehicle in an emergency." Here is the link to the NTSB news release: https://www.ntsb.gov/news/press-releases/Pages/PR20150811.aspx

It's all about perception that the general public sees since the Media tens to sensationalize traffic crashes that involve truckers especially if there are fatalities involved. There will always is the inevitable call for more regulation and over site of the industry. I believe that incidents like this are just a small fraction of accidents / incidents that happen across the country on any given day but the Media chooses to highlight these as the adage goes "If it bleeds it leads."

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

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