Dot Tests And Regulations

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Anne A. (momcat)'s Comment
member avatar

Hello all, I apologize for hijacking this thread but I found this thread and wanted to ask a question that was in the same ballpark instead of making a new thread.

I'll get to the point, I'm planning on getting my CDL later this summer, but for now I only needed a DOT medical card to drive my company's truck. I went to get a DOT medical card and made the mistake of admitting past marijuana use in the last 2-3 years in the questionare form. Because of this the doctor could not give me the physical and told me I would have to complete a SAP before I could take the physical. I never took a drug test and very much could pass a urine/hair test as I've been clean for at least two years, I just made the idiotic mistake of admitting past use.

I've read up on Clearinghouse and FMCSA and am wondering if I take this SAP to then pass my DOT physical, will this show up on my record when I eventually apply for a CDL/and or try to become employed?

All I did was admit prior use (which was extremely dumb) but I never failed any test and I know for a fact I will pass in the future, I just want to know if this will be a permanent etch on my record that will make it diffulct to become gainfully employed.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you.

Derrick A. ~

HOWDY~!!

I've got no answers for you, but am just wondering. . . were you obtaining a CDL B at this DOT physical? Hotshot GVWR over 26K ?? I'm pretty sure Rick or PackRat or OldSchool will be around in the am, to help ya more.

If there is ANY more info YOU could share, as to why you needed a DOT med card for your 'current' employer, if you weren't yet driving anything CDL regulated yet?

Wow, my questions might not even matter . . . at all. Hmmm.. If your COMPANY sent you to that Doctor (did they, or your choice?) that might be a snag.

Jeezh I'm so not sure..at all. Just wanted to let you know somebody here cares, and we are acknowledging you. I wish I had answers. This new FMCSA stuff (clearinghouse, et al) has a bunch of us in the 'HUH?' mode.

I'm sorry. I DESPISE these gray areas, Derrick. Sadly, there are many in and about this industry as of late. (ie:Now, the Yard Moves are back into play, as well.)

If YOU find the answers, please let US know. Information shared, is time gained . . . for all of us.

Wishing you the best,

~ Anne ~

ps: The hijack is a help, in and of itself . . . thanks!

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

SAP:

Substance Abuse Professional

The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

GVWR:

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating

GVWR is the maximum operating weight of a vehicle as specified by the manufacturer, minus any trailers.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar

Hello all, I apologize for hijacking this thread but I found this thread and wanted to ask a question that was in the same ballpark instead of making a new thread.

I'll get to the point, I'm planning on getting my CDL later this summer, but for now I only needed a DOT medical card to drive my company's truck. I went to get a DOT medical card and made the mistake of admitting past marijuana use in the last 2-3 years in the questionare form. Because of this the doctor could not give me the physical and told me I would have to complete a SAP before I could take the physical. I never took a drug test and very much could pass a urine/hair test as I've been clean for at least two years, I just made the idiotic mistake of admitting past use.

I've read up on Clearinghouse and FMCSA and am wondering if I take this SAP to then pass my DOT physical, will this show up on my record when I eventually apply for a CDL/and or try to become employed?

All I did was admit prior use (which was extremely dumb) but I never failed any test and I know for a fact I will pass in the future, I just want to know if this will be a permanent etch on my record that will make it diffulct to become gainfully employed.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you.

Depends on whether or not the Doc submits your exam and long form as a FAIL.

That being the case (and depending on HOW LONG AGO you admitted to use) - you would have to wait out that time period, until you can HONESTLY ANSWER NO.

SAP is used for a Return To Duty Protocol - AFTER A POSITIVE DRUG/ALCOHOL SCREEN. I see nothing in the regs that says it is required after admitting use within two years. In fact - it is NOT AN AUTOMATIC FAIL to admit use within 2 years - it is AT THE MEDICAL EXAMINERS DISCRETION. And I honestly think your ME got this one WRONG - unless he just has such a hardon for weed smokers. And FAILING A DRUG SCREEN doesn't affect your CDL OR MEDICAL CARD - just that a COMPANY CANNOT LET YOU DRIVE UNTIL YOU COMPLETE THE RETURN TO DUTY PROTOCOL.

The questions on the DOT Medical Exam Long Form:

31. Have you used an illegal substance within the past two years?

32. Have you ever failed a drug test or been dependent on an illegal substance?

And if you were clean for "at least two years" - I am NOT SURE WHY YOU ANSWERED YES TO #32. What did you give for an EXPLANATION TO #31? If you answered something like: "I quit smoking weed 23 months ago" - then you could go back in two months and honestly answer NO to #31 and you should be good to go.

Did the doctor GIVE YOU BACK THE FORM WITH THE "Does Not Meet Medical Standards" section filled out? What was the reason for denial?

Which leads to another grey area at the top of the form - "Has your USDOT/FMCSA medical certificate ever been denied or issued for less than 2 years?". Now - since you WERE NOT EXAMINED, you might be able to answer NO - but the safer answer would be NOT SURE.

DOT Medical Exam Long Form

ME's are required to report results to FMCSA - used to be you could "Doctor Shop" until you found one that would issue a card.

I'm not trying to sound accusatory here - but this just sounds a little WEIRD - like there's something missing to the story here. And you don't say WHERE you are from - a marijuana legal state (for example), or held a Med-Weed-Card - where you quit a few years ago? We've just heard some REALLY WEIRD STORIES here through the near 12 years I've been here.

Again - the FORM SAYS TWO YEARS. It's a FEDERAL FORM so marijuana IS ILLEGAL as far as the form says - though it may not be in the next year, then they'll have to CHANGE THE FORM AGAIN.

Kind of like ATF Form 4473 (application for firearm transfer) - where it asks the question about "illegal drugs" - and then reminds the applicant that weed is STILL FEDERALLY ILLEGAL, regardless of state laws. Stoners answer YES and are denied the firearms purchase - or answer NO (and the feds/locals see they have a Med-Weed-Card and lied on a firearms form - 10 years/$250K - NOT GOOD EITHER).

OK - back to YOUR situation. Much hinges on WHAT YOU ANSWERED on that question in the box below. Much depends on whether or not the ME ACTUALLY FAILED YOU. NOTHING IN THE REGS suggests a YES on #31 automatically triggers a RTD/SAP - since you NEVER FAILED A SCREEN.

I would find ANOTHER MEDICAL EXAMINER and ask him about this. And if you HONESTLY ANSWERED #31, and said you haven't used in OVER TWO YEARS - then you ANSWERED THE QUESTION INCORRECTLY.

But again - yes on 31 - is AT THE ME'S DISCRETION - AND NOT AN AUTOMATIC FAIL. Now - if you admitted to SHOOTING HEROIN, that would be another story.

The confusion and ambiguity around weed, is just getting plain old DUMB. And federal legalization/decriminalization, is only going to INCREASE THE AMBIGUITY in certain professions.

Rick

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

SAP:

Substance Abuse Professional

The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

BMI:

Body mass index (BMI)

BMI is a formula that uses weight and height to estimate body fat. For most people, BMI provides a reasonable estimate of body fat. The BMI's biggest weakness is that it doesn't consider individual factors such as bone or muscle mass. BMI may:

  • Underestimate body fat for older adults or other people with low muscle mass
  • Overestimate body fat for people who are very muscular and physically fit

It's quite common, especially for men, to fall into the "overweight" category if you happen to be stronger than average. If you're pretty strong but in good shape then pay no attention.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Oddball's Comment
member avatar

Hello all, I apologize for hijacking this thread but I found this thread and wanted to ask a question that was in the same ballpark instead of making a new thread.

I'll get to the point, I'm planning on getting my CDL later this summer, but for now I only needed a DOT medical card to drive my company's truck. I went to get a DOT medical card and made the mistake of admitting past marijuana use in the last 2-3 years in the questionare form. Because of this the doctor could not give me the physical and told me I would have to complete a SAP before I could take the physical. I never took a drug test and very much could pass a urine/hair test as I've been clean for at least two years, I just made the idiotic mistake of admitting past use.

I've read up on Clearinghouse and FMCSA and am wondering if I take this SAP to then pass my DOT physical, will this show up on my record when I eventually apply for a CDL/and or try to become employed?

All I did was admit prior use (which was extremely dumb) but I never failed any test and I know for a fact I will pass in the future, I just want to know if this will be a permanent etch on my record that will make it diffulct to become gainfully employed.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you.

Just go get a physical done elsewhere. Pay the $80 yourself and be done with it.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

SAP:

Substance Abuse Professional

The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Anne A. (momcat)'s Comment
member avatar

double-quotes-start.png

Hello all, I apologize for hijacking this thread but I found this thread and wanted to ask a question that was in the same ballpark instead of making a new thread.

I'll get to the point, I'm planning on getting my CDL later this summer, but for now I only needed a DOT medical card to drive my company's truck. I went to get a DOT medical card and made the mistake of admitting past marijuana use in the last 2-3 years in the questionare form. Because of this the doctor could not give me the physical and told me I would have to complete a SAP before I could take the physical. I never took a drug test and very much could pass a urine/hair test as I've been clean for at least two years, I just made the idiotic mistake of admitting past use.

I've read up on Clearinghouse and FMCSA and am wondering if I take this SAP to then pass my DOT physical, will this show up on my record when I eventually apply for a CDL/and or try to become employed?

All I did was admit prior use (which was extremely dumb) but I never failed any test and I know for a fact I will pass in the future, I just want to know if this will be a permanent etch on my record that will make it diffulct to become gainfully employed.

Any help is greatly appreciated, thank you.

double-quotes-end.png

Just go get a physical done elsewhere. Pay the $80 yourself and be done with it.

And find another employer (?!?) .. That's what is unclear. Sure wish he'd come back instead of drinking the koolaid with the 'supa'trucka's elsewhere. Talk about conflicting~! If his CURRENT employer wanted 'THEIR' M/E .. does he even HAVE that option?!?!? I'm almost thinking this looks like an unmarked RxR . . . in lesser words.

Good night/day, folks. Hubby's home late; gonna clean the 1211 (Don) ... as 2008 weeble wobble got to be too much, and is in the MACK shop, as it should be! (He borrowed another Woo truck.. sorry!)

Following for my OWN curiosity purposes, just to be in the know.

ps: Thanks, Rickipedia. Major thanks. You always put a LOT of time, and facts into your replies. I just show up so somebody knows I care, tbh.

~ Anne ~

confused.gif good-luck.gif confused.gif

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

SAP:

Substance Abuse Professional

The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Jammer a's Comment
member avatar

I agree 1 hundred with old school and I believe you tried to get it out of your system also but it takes a lot of time to get it outta the hair my old company if you had 90 days out and they could tell by the hair follicle they would hire you but give you another random right away and I’ve seen guys fail that to

double-quotes-start.png

Seems counterintuitive of the trucking industry to have such a high demand for drivers and yet rely on a test that isn’t even technically in their regulations.

double-quotes-end.png

Ashley, you just got schooled in a lesson that most newbies don't understand. So many of us see all these ads for trucking jobs, and we read about the high demand for truck drivers thinking we are just going to walk in there like a rock star and get ourselves a high paying job. The demand is for highly motivated professionals who can get the job done safely. There are so many people who do just like you did. They show up unprepared with high hopes that these companies just need warm bodies to put in the seats of their trucks. It's not so. Most of the people who try this career never even make it to their one year anniversary. Sadly, and I say that sincerely, you have become one of those statistics. You simply weren't prepared for this. You didn't give yourself enough time to be clean. You can be clean for a urine test in a matter of about four weeks. You were good on that, but that hair test is really serious. You need a good six months or more to pass that test.

These trucking companies have huge liabilities. That's why most of them are doing hair tests now. It is a more reliable test. Their regulations are always behind the times - imagine that - our government being slow to make needed adjustments to our industry. It doesn't surprise me at all that they made the decision to send you home. Had they put you in a truck, and you had an accident that killed or maimed someone, the lawyers would have a hay day in court when they discovered you failed a pre-employment drug screening.

I am sorry about what happened to you, but you have to realize who brought this on you. It wasn't some greedy trucking company.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Derrick A.'s Comment
member avatar

Hi Anne,

I appreciate the reply, the company I work for isn't a trucking company, we have a fleet of Dodge 5500s that occasionally haul (with a trailer) more than the combined 26k lbs which requires a CDL. Normally whoever is driving only needs need to have a DOT medical card because we are driving around to and from job sites with less than 26k lbs, but my company wantes me to get a CDL later on so that if I had to I could haul our big trailer with all our equipment and still be legal. I explained the situation to my boss and he was understanding, and since no physical was completed there were no results that were sent to him.

So to answer your question no, I was not in the process of obtaining any CDL at any point, just my medical card to be DOT legal on the road.

Anyways I appreciate the initial reply, thanks

Also @Rick, thank you for the detailed reply. I really appreciate it. I think because no form was given back to me I will just get a physical done at a different doctor and keep my mouth shut this time.

Thanks again guys.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

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