Failed Pre-employment Drug Screen, Can I Still Go To Driving School?
Topic 6647 | Page 2
Not a bad idea but like you said, it probably wont help the situation at all. From what I've read the SAP course first starts with a meeting with a counselor where they evaluate you and then give you instructions on treatment programs. It was never even close to an addiction I smoked for 2-2.5 months every other week like I said previously but ill do whatever I need to do, I just know it will take me a while to be able to save up the money required to enlist for it.
Im sure your not addicted but you gotta look at it from their point of view they get a lot of people trying to start a career in trucking and I'm sure theres a lot of people that fail that drug test all the time and they are looking at you like everyone that has failed a drug test and I would like to see someone trying to get help to beat a addiction even if your not but they assume you are over someone just saying I don't have a addiction could you give me a shot... You see where I'm going with this.. Again I'm not saying your Bob Marley and smoking big a** blunts 24/7/365 but you gotta assume that every single trucking company is going to think you are... I hope you the best and good luck
SAP:
Substance Abuse Professional
The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.
Probably best to just wait and see if it was actually reported.
FMCSA overview on failed testing http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regulations/drug-alcohol-testing/what-if-i-fail-or-refuse-test
I don't believe fails are reported directly to FMCSA - but if they show up on a DAC , you're going to be required to complete the procedures outlined in the regs, before being "hirable" at a company. And I wouldn't try to lie - and leave out a previous bad test - if it shows up on a DAC, you'll be pitched for lying on your application, just as fast as a bad pre-employment screen.
I'm not going to try and determine whether someone else is an addict/alcoholic. I know I am, and have many years of sobriety under my belt.
But a word to the wise, all people considering entering the industry. While this and other sites have a pretty good listing of what kind of tests companies use - always assume the worst case scenario - that is hair testing. The longer/more you've used - the longer you're going to have to stay clean, in order to TEST CLEAN. And you can be called in for a random at any time - for no reason. And will certainly get tested after any accident with damage. So if you think you can somehow keep using and "beat the system", don't even bother trying.
Once you've dropped dirty - even after you've completed any "return to work" requisites - expect to be under much closer scrutiny. Which means your "random testing", is probably going to end up seeming a lot "less random".
And again - most companies are not going to want to bother with people perceived as "problem children". There are plenty of folks out there, that are not going to present this additional (potential) liability, and from a business standpoint - they will be getting the hire.
Rick
CSA:
Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)
The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle
FMCSA:
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.
What Does The FMCSA Do?
- Commercial Drivers' Licenses
- Data and Analysis
- Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
- Research and Technology
- Safety Assistance
- Support and Information Sharing
DOT:
Department Of Transportation
A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.
State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.
Fm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.DAC:
Drive-A-Check Report
A truck drivers DAC report will contain detailed information about their job history of the last 10 years as a CDL driver (as required by the DOT).
It may also contain your criminal history, drug test results, DOT infractions and accident history. The program is strictly voluntary from a company standpoint, but most of the medium-to-large carriers will participate.
Most trucking companies use DAC reports as part of their hiring and background check process. It is extremely important that drivers verify that the information contained in it is correct, and have it fixed if it's not.
I totally understand where everyone is coming from and I do agree that it's a very important job where many lives are at risk every time you drive. I don't see "random" tests being an issue. I have no intent on smoking again. I had actually never thought about driving trucks til I became unemployed and couldn't find a job that paid more than minimum wage in my small town. So now I was unemployed and looking for work. I've always wanted to get out of this state for as long as I've been out of high school and so being able to travel was a plus too. Thanks for all the advice too. Ill be getting this SAP completed as soon as possible and hopefully be able to restart this with a somewhat clean slate.
SAP:
Substance Abuse Professional
The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.
I totally understand where everyone is coming from and I do agree that it's a very important job where many lives are at risk every time you drive. I don't see "random" tests being an issue. I have no intent on smoking again. I had actually never thought about driving trucks til I became unemployed and couldn't find a job that paid more than minimum wage in my small town. So now I was unemployed and looking for work. I've always wanted to get out of this state for as long as I've been out of high school and so being able to travel was a plus too. Thanks for all the advice too. Ill be getting this SAP completed as soon as possible and hopefully be able to restart this with a somewhat clean slate.
You may be ok. I would first check with DAC to see if you are there. I personally doubt it. The good news is that you aren't planning on smoking again. Also you may be ok. The thing is that you did a preemployment and never got hired. Carriers do not report failed drug tests to dot or FMCSA unless dot or FMCSA are conducting an accident investigation. A carrier is required to keep failed tests and non failed tests on record for I believe a minimum of 2 years. And for Dot to see them they would have to do an audit of that company or if that company was picked to submit mis reports which usually only go back 1-2 years, depends what dot wants if they want it. If there is nothing with DAC then if you went to work for someone else ( tested clean) and did not tell them about your failed test they would not know because you never worked for the carrier you tested positive for. You could elect not to tell them about your failed test. Testing facilities do not report to dot or FMCSA. Their MRO will however report to the company you tested positve and to a sap and dot if there is an accident investigation even without your consent. As far as employers go. It is illegal for them to give your information to another employer without your written consent. They do not report to dot but keep drug tests on record for a minimum of 2 years. If they don't get an audit you may never be discovered that you failed a test because if DAC doesn't have it and 2 years pass it is highly unlikely that you would ever be found out. In the mean time if you are serious about driving, drugs will be a problem.
CSA:
Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)
The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle
FMCSA:
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.
What Does The FMCSA Do?
- Commercial Drivers' Licenses
- Data and Analysis
- Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
- Research and Technology
- Safety Assistance
- Support and Information Sharing
SAP:
Substance Abuse Professional
The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.
DOT:
Department Of Transportation
A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.
State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.
BMI:
Body mass index (BMI)
BMI is a formula that uses weight and height to estimate body fat. For most people, BMI provides a reasonable estimate of body fat. The BMI's biggest weakness is that it doesn't consider individual factors such as bone or muscle mass. BMI may:
- Underestimate body fat for older adults or other people with low muscle mass
- Overestimate body fat for people who are very muscular and physically fit
It's quite common, especially for men, to fall into the "overweight" category if you happen to be stronger than average. If you're pretty strong but in good shape then pay no attention.
Fm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.DAC:
Drive-A-Check Report
A truck drivers DAC report will contain detailed information about their job history of the last 10 years as a CDL driver (as required by the DOT).
It may also contain your criminal history, drug test results, DOT infractions and accident history. The program is strictly voluntary from a company standpoint, but most of the medium-to-large carriers will participate.
Most trucking companies use DAC reports as part of their hiring and background check process. It is extremely important that drivers verify that the information contained in it is correct, and have it fixed if it's not.
As far as doing the return to duty sap thing. it can be a double edge sword. Yes you will be able to work usually within 2 weeks and one year of at least 6 random drug tests. But now your employer will definitely know about your failed test. I don't know how long dot keeps that information or DAC.
SAP:
Substance Abuse Professional
The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.
DOT:
Department Of Transportation
A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.
State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.
DAC:
Drive-A-Check Report
A truck drivers DAC report will contain detailed information about their job history of the last 10 years as a CDL driver (as required by the DOT).
It may also contain your criminal history, drug test results, DOT infractions and accident history. The program is strictly voluntary from a company standpoint, but most of the medium-to-large carriers will participate.
Most trucking companies use DAC reports as part of their hiring and background check process. It is extremely important that drivers verify that the information contained in it is correct, and have it fixed if it's not.
Drink a ton of water before the test.
Drink a ton of water before the test.
That doesn't always work. A drug test result could come back "DILUTED," and you would have to take the test again. I would suggest drinking water, soda or juice the day before.
Dave
As far as doing the return to duty sap thing. it can be a double edge sword. Yes you will be able to work usually within 2 weeks and one year of at least 6 random drug tests. But now your employer will definitely know about your failed test. I don't know how long dot keeps that information or DAC.
It also means that on potential subsequent applications - you would have to answer YES to the "have you ever failed or refused a drug test" - or get caught lying on an application if (when) it shows on a DAC.
Since it appears in this case, that the employer DID REPORT IT - it's pretty likely that the "Return To Duty/SAP" process has to be completed - even if he attempts to go with another employer. FMCSA Regulations are pretty clear on this. And it has to be an APPROVED SAP PROVIDER - not some guy you met at an NA/AA meeting.
Approved SAP Providers can be found here:
www.nsapn.com www.saplist.com www.findtreatment.samhsa.gov www.sapreferralservices.com www.sapaa.com
FMCSA Regs don't appear to allow a lot of leeway here...
Rick
CSA:
Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)
The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle
FMCSA:
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.
What Does The FMCSA Do?
- Commercial Drivers' Licenses
- Data and Analysis
- Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
- Research and Technology
- Safety Assistance
- Support and Information Sharing
SAP:
Substance Abuse Professional
The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.
DOT:
Department Of Transportation
A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.
State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.
Fm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.DAC:
Drive-A-Check Report
A truck drivers DAC report will contain detailed information about their job history of the last 10 years as a CDL driver (as required by the DOT).
It may also contain your criminal history, drug test results, DOT infractions and accident history. The program is strictly voluntary from a company standpoint, but most of the medium-to-large carriers will participate.
Most trucking companies use DAC reports as part of their hiring and background check process. It is extremely important that drivers verify that the information contained in it is correct, and have it fixed if it's not.
As far as doing the return to duty sap thing. it can be a double edge sword. Yes you will be able to work usually within 2 weeks and one year of at least 6 random drug tests. But now your employer will definitely know about your failed test. I don't know how long dot keeps that information or DAC.
It also means that on potential subsequent applications - you would have to answer YES to the "have you ever failed or refused a drug test" - or get caught lying on an application if (when) it shows on a DAC.
Since it appears in this case, that the employer DID REPORT IT - it's pretty likely that the "Return To Duty/SAP" process has to be completed - even if he attempts to go with another employer. FMCSA Regulations are pretty clear on this. And it has to be an APPROVED SAP PROVIDER - not some guy you met at an NA/AA meeting.
Approved SAP Providers can be found here:
www.nsapn.com www.saplist.com www.findtreatment.samhsa.gov www.sapreferralservices.com www.sapaa.com
FMCSA Regs don't appear to allow a lot of leeway here...
Rick
Rick you are right on the rules and regs. And if the positive test is reported to DAC then it is there and he will have to deal with it or leave the business. But if it has not been reported to DAC then and prospective employer will not know as this is not reported to other employers or agencies. This sort of thing has been happening for years (job hopping or state hopping) and the failed test goes unnoticed. A bill was supposed to be passed to establish a national data base to plug that loophole. where failed test were reported and then stopping job hopping. But I don't know if the bill has passed yet.
CSA:
Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)
The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle
FMCSA:
Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration
The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.
What Does The FMCSA Do?
- Commercial Drivers' Licenses
- Data and Analysis
- Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
- Research and Technology
- Safety Assistance
- Support and Information Sharing
SAP:
Substance Abuse Professional
The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.
DOT:
Department Of Transportation
A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.
State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.
Fm:
Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager
The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.DAC:
Drive-A-Check Report
A truck drivers DAC report will contain detailed information about their job history of the last 10 years as a CDL driver (as required by the DOT).
It may also contain your criminal history, drug test results, DOT infractions and accident history. The program is strictly voluntary from a company standpoint, but most of the medium-to-large carriers will participate.
Most trucking companies use DAC reports as part of their hiring and background check process. It is extremely important that drivers verify that the information contained in it is correct, and have it fixed if it's not.
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Not a bad idea but like you said, it probably wont help the situation at all. From what I've read the SAP course first starts with a meeting with a counselor where they evaluate you and then give you instructions on treatment programs. It was never even close to an addiction I smoked for 2-2.5 months every other week like I said previously but ill do whatever I need to do, I just know it will take me a while to be able to save up the money required to enlist for it.
SAP:
Substance Abuse Professional
The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.