Security Guard VS HoS

Here is the FMCSA page on the law

https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety

FMCSA adopts regulations that prohibit motor carriers, shippers, receivers, or transportation intermediaries from coercing drivers to operate commercial motor vehicles (CMVs) in violation of certain provisions of the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Regulations (FMCSRs)--including drivers' hours-of-service limits; the commercial driver's license (CDL) regulations; drug and alcohol testing rules; and the Hazardous Materials Regulations (HMRs). In addition, the rule prohibits anyone who operates a CMV in interstate commerce from coercing a driver to violate the commercial regulations. This rule includes procedures for drivers to report incidents of coercion to FMCSA, establishes rules of practice that the Agency will follow in response to reports of coercion, and describes penalties that may be imposed on entities found to have coerced drivers. This rulemaking is authorized by section 32911 of the Moving Ahead for Progress in the 21st Century Act (MAP-21) and the Motor Carrier Safety Act of 1984 (MCSA), as amended.

Effective date: 1/29/2016

This is from: Prohibiting Coercion of Commercial Motor Vehicle Drivers. (I added the underlines above.)

The Federal Register article is here: Prohibiting Coercion of Commercial Motor Vehicle Drivers. Lots more detail. Warning: it's written by lawyers. Zzzzzzz...

On further research, I found this page, which explains things in almost plain English. You might want to print this page out, so you can have it handy at a shipper/receiver.

FMCSA - Coercion

A reminder: do plan your time so this issue doesn't come up. If you know this location always takes 3 hours to load, don't show up when you have four hours left on your 14.

On further research, I found this page, which explains things in almost plain English. You might want to print this page out, so you can have it handy at a shipper/receiver.

FMCSA - Coercion

A reminder: do plan your time so this issue doesn't come up. If you know this location always takes 3 hours to load, don't show up when you have four hours left on your 14.

that can only go so far. Some places will never get you out within any reasonable amount of time.

That is the point of the rewording and clarification of this law. It also covers things like your company forcing you to run over weight or in a truck you know cannot pass a safety inspection. It's a tool for the driver to cover their own tail wherected were perviously did not have any backing behind us to say no.

The law has been used and it supported the driver. One company has already been forced to pay over 100,000 to drivers for breaking the law.

However if its the end of the duty day and your running out of hours go to sleeper berth you don't need to stay 8 hours only 2 hrs for the split, then when they are done loading / unloading you drive to your parking for the night.

The point being that if you are approaching your 14hrs for a delay at the shipper go to sleeper berth and it freezes the 14 hr clock. you can always "EDIT". I'm not advocating fudging the logs or rules, but with this catch 22 situation this will keep everyone happy.

To my knowledge this is not how the split sleeper rule works. The two-hour period, regardless of whether it is spent in sleeper or not, does not "freeze" your 14. The eight-hour period spent in sleeper does that.

I know this thread is from a year ago but nobody came up with the correct action. Actually you should be on duty - not driving at the shipper and most companies will expect this.

I almost never spend more than a half hour on duty at a customer. If I'm waiting to be loaded or unloaded, I'm usually reading, surfing the internet, or watching TV. These are not work functions, and my company considers me relieved of duty. If you don't actively conserve your hours, prepare to have some abysmal paychecks. A good example--last week we were stuck at a shipper for over 24 hours. 24 hours driving at my mileage rate is more than $700. 24 hours on duty is $0.

To my knowledge this is not how the split sleeper rule works. The two-hour period, regardless of whether it is spent in sleeper or not, does not "freeze" your 14. The eight-hour period spent in sleeper does that.

Correct, you actually need 8hrs in the sleeper first...

I almost never spend more than a half hour on duty at a customer. If I'm waiting to be loaded or unloaded, I'm usually reading, surfing the internet, or watching TV. These are not work functions, and my company considers me relieved of duty. If you don't actively conserve your hours, prepare to have some abysmal paychecks. A good example--last week we were stuck at a shipper for over 24 hours. 24 hours driving at my mileage rate is more than $700. 24 hours on duty is $0.

When i hit a customer, I will log on-duty the moment i hit my air brakes, head inside, check in, get my door, back in.. at that point, I will go to SB and go chill in the bunk until my light turns green or they bring me my paper work. Theres no point in wasting down your clock on your 70 sitting around.

I've heard meantion a few time in this post about the so called safe haven rules and from what I've read in the fmcsa that only applies to hazmat loads, and I can't seem to make sense of what the legal stand point is on personal conveyance, sense most officers will tell you that if you're using it to avoid a violation for driver after you 11, 14, or 70 expires, that they won't recognize the personal conveyance and will ticket you for the violation anyway, at the end of the day it's up to the officer and how they choose to interpret all those confusing laws and regulations we have to follow

Joseph, as you are aware I'm sure, a driver can certainly get himself some really bad information from other drivers while sitting around at a truck stop cafe or driver's lounge. There seems to be these mythical truths, sort of like "old wive's tales," that gain lives of their own among the truckers that hang around together with too much time on their hands.

As far as the idea of using the personal conveyance line here is the criteria I go by if I decide to use it, and just for the record, I have used it maybe two times during the past year. It should be something that will seldom be needed by just about any driver.

1. I only use it if I am on a 34 hour reset away from home.

2. I only use it if I do not have a trailer attached to my tractor.

3. I only use it if I am not under a load or a pre-planned load.

4. I only use it to go somewhere and back to my original place I am parked.

An example might be if I was parked somewhere that I could not get a shower or a meal. After getting my ten hour break on the "sleeper line" I will switch myself to "off duty" (I always log it this way just in case something changes and I don't get to finish my 34). Then let's say it is a short drive to a restaurant or a place to get a shower, (I usually don't exceed say about 20 miles) then I will return to the same area I was parked. My trip to the restaurant, and my return drive to my parking area will be logged as personal conveyance. That is strictly how I use it, but that is just the way I feel comfortable about it. The regulation is extremely vague in it's wording, and therefore should be avoided unless absolutely necessary.

As far as the discussion of a "safe haven" rule here is a conversation I started one time after being concerned, as you were, about the discussions going on in here about this nebulous rule. The Safe Haven Myth.

I had a similar situation at a DC for a big box store (which will remain nameless). I ran out of time because the "security guard" told me since I came in with a trailer, I had to leave with one. I called my night DM and let him know the situation that I was going to cut it close, and sure enough, I ran out of time hooking up to the empty trailer. I called my logs department to discuss my options. they were have them send out another driver in the area with hours available to get me the 1/4 mile to the parking area they allow drivers to use just outside the gate, get towed, or drive the 2 minutes to the parking area. I opted for the last option, AFTER the logs department sent me a message on the qualcomm telling to do so. in the message they included that I could drive up to 2 miles to a safe haven to do my 10 hour break, just in case there was an officer sitting outside the gate.... the logs department noted the security guards name and badge number and company in the notes... they also did not hold it against me since they made me leave the property, knowing I was out of hours, and they knew I would run out of time if I went and got the trailer they assigned me....

There is no real right or wrong answer for this..if you stay on the property and refuse to leave you could possibly be charged with criminal trespassing. Now if an officer was summoned to the scene could he make a lawful arrest?? I doubt it. This is a judgement call on the officers part. As a retired officer I know I wouldn't and I don't know of any that I think would. If a driver was arrested for something like this I seriously doubt there would be a conviction. It would more than likely get thrown out.

People used to ask me all the time if they would go to jail for this or that..there are so many variables in different situations..so many things when it comes to the law are not cut and dry. On the other hand if this situation were to happen and you were cited by DOT for being out of hours after being told to leave would this be a good case made by the officer?? Again, I think not...not a good case and judgement call on the officers part. In either case I would definitely take it to court. If I am confronted with this situation I would drive on to the next safe stopping area and deal with my company and the company/receiver there..go with the odds..its a low chance you will be stopped anyway.