Appointment Times Or [by The] Log Book?

Ted, you're experiencing the difference between old school and new school trucking.

I started in '93 and drove for about 15 years. I never once used electronic logs and I don't think I ever completed a 24 hour period in all those years that my logs reflected what I was actually doing, unless I was at home for a few days. But when I ran, I ran whatever schedule I needed to in order to make the pickups and deliveries on time and I wrote down whatever I needed to in the logbook to make it look legal. You did what you could, you wrote what you should.

For the entire history of trucking, until the last 10 years or so, that's how things were done. If you went into a truck stop or customer back in the day and heard someone even mention their available hours everyone would just smile and say, "Sooooooo, you're a rookie, eh? How long you been driving?" Because nobody cared about running legal. We only cared about appearing to be legal on our logbooks.

Now there are a ton of old school drivers out there that would quit driving before they would even consider running electronic logbooks. They're used to cheating, they like the flexibility it provides, they know how to work the system, and that's their preferred way of doing things. They're out there to make all the money they can and the laws are just getting in their way.

That was me. In fact, that was most of us.

Today, the major carriers are all on electronic logs and before long everyone will have to switch over to electronic logs by law. But right now there are a ton of smaller companies out there that still do it the old school way. They expect you to "work the system" and figure out a way to make it happen.

And let me clarify something here......these are not disreputable companies. These old school companies often have a family-type atmosphere, good equipment, and tons of miles available. Their drivers are usually more experienced and road savvy than the less experienced drivers you find at the major companies and they're used to doing things the old school way.

The only thing wrong with the company you're at is that it doesn't suit your style. That's it. They do things one way, you'd prefer to do them another. Unfortunately for you, they're not going to change. These companies are run by old schoolers and they expect you to do things the old school way.

I rarely tell anyone to change companies that first year. I think there's a long list of reasons why that's normally a bad idea. But in your case I think you're in a situation that doesn't suit you and it's not going to change. So I think you have a decision to make. You're either going to learn to run the old school way or you're better off going to a company with electronic logs. To me, there is no right or wrong choice, just the choice that suits you best. But I think you're totally wasting your time trying to get them to let you run 100% legal and log things exactly the way you're doing them. That's not how things are done at most of the smaller companies. You're going to be frustrated with them, they'll be frustrated with you, and things are never going to gel. So it's time to decide what you feel suits you best and find a company that does things your way.

Ted, you're experiencing the difference between old school and new school trucking.

I started in '93 and drove for about 15 years. I never once used electronic logs and I don't think I ever completed a 24 hour period in all those years that my logs reflected what I was actually doing, unless I was at home for a few days. But when I ran, I ran whatever schedule I needed to in order to make the pickups and deliveries on time and I wrote down whatever I needed to in the logbook to make it look legal. You did what you could, you wrote what you should.

For the entire history of trucking, until the last 10 years or so, that's how things were done. If you went into a truck stop or customer back in the day and heard someone even mention their available hours everyone would just smile and say, "Sooooooo, you're a rookie, eh? How long you been driving?" Because nobody cared about running legal. We only cared about appearing to be legal on our logbooks.

Now there are a ton of old school drivers out there that would quit driving before they would even consider running electronic logbooks. They're used to cheating, they like the flexibility it provides, they know how to work the system, and that's their preferred way of doing things. They're out there to make all the money they can and the laws are just getting in their way.

That was me. In fact, that was most of us.

Today, the major carriers are all on electronic logs and before long everyone will have to switch over to electronic logs by law. But right now there are a ton of smaller companies out there that still do it the old school way. They expect you to "work the system" and figure out a way to make it happen.

And let me clarify something here......these are not disreputable companies. These old school companies often have a family-type atmosphere, good equipment, and tons of miles available. Their drivers are usually more experienced and road savvy than the less experienced drivers you find at the major companies and they're used to doing things the old school way.

The only thing wrong with the company you're at is that it doesn't suit your style. That's it. They do things one way, you'd prefer to do them another. Unfortunately for you, they're not going to change. These companies are run by old schoolers and they expect you to do things the old school way.

I rarely tell anyone to change companies that first year. I think there's a long list of reasons why that's normally a bad idea. But in your case I think you're in a situation that doesn't suit you and it's not going to change. So I think you have a decision to make. You're either going to learn to run the old school way or you're better off going to a company with electronic logs. To me, there is no right or wrong choice, just the choice that suits you best. But I think you're totally wasting your time trying to get them to let you run 100% legal and log things exactly the way you're doing them. That's not how things are done at most of the smaller companies. You're going to be frustrated with them, they'll be frustrated with you, and things are never going to gel. So it's time to decide what you feel suits you best and find a company that does things your way.

Amen Brett, except for one thing; These companies who run only paper logs are on the out. As much as it ****es me and the "old school" drivers off, it is a fact. The FMCSA has made it very clear that not only will the "ELD" be required and normal (whatever the f*** that means), they are already looking past those regs and pushing for the technology that takes the driver out of truck driving.

So, according to the current rule makers, the companies who still run with paper logs are no longer reputable. B.S. for sure, but, it is now politically incorrect to support those operations.

I'm thinking your boss is expecting you to run as he would have with "loose leaf" logs. basically tricking the system. I and Im sure everyone one else here, would suggest not doing this. It's not worth it.

As for these ridiculous appointment times, Run them the best you can. If you can keep yourself from "starting" your clock, IE if you get dispatched the day before and can make it to the pickup night/day before, then you can milk it and not officially starting your clock. Once you get loaded, you can start your log book from the time you leave the shipper and that should give you your full set of hrs to run and might help you out. There is also the split sleeper bearth. Not sure if that will help you out a lot, but its an option.

The biggest thing is to try and get to pick ups as i said the earliest you can. Using google maps/earth will help you tell if they have any truck parking near by, you can also at times google search the customers name and get a phone number. I use google maps, and can most of the time find a number.

This is a great idea, I will do this whenever given the opportunity.

Sounds like I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place :) Thank you for all the input everyone.

First off - thanks for your service.

As Brett elaborated - smaller companies do run "Old School" (aka: Outlaw). For people that came up that way in the biz, and learned (or better yet - WERE TAUGHT) how to "fix logs" - that's one thing. I have friends that run for a small outfit with a dually & 5th wheel trailer (motorcycle transport) that run 3 log books, and have other friends that work for regular trucking companies that also run 2 or 3 logs.

While I understand what Brett is saying - and agree that, you can definitely make more $$ and have more flexibility "cheating" - the fact of the matter is - coupled with good time management, there is still some difficulty with running way over legal driving time - and not being EXHAUSTED. Even truck drivers need sleep.

Now - if your "boss" and dispatcher are willing to sit down and give you a class on "outlaw logging", so at least you can look somewhat kosher (since you're new at this) if your logs are inspected, and the pay is just SO GOOD that you're willing to risk this - go for it. But if (god forbid) you get in an accident and someone is badly injured or dies - they will pick apart your logs with a fine-tooth-comb, and even if you weren't at fault in the accident, if you're caught running falsified logs, it becomes CRIMINAL.

Living in NC, you have many opportunities to sign on with pretty much any carrier. With recent verifiable experience, you should get "checked out" to run solo pretty fast.

So again - unless you're being COMPENSATED in an amount commensurate with the risk you're taking (which might make it worthwhile), I would considering moving on to a carrier that would not require such risks.

Rick

First off - thanks for your service.

As Brett elaborated - smaller companies do run "Old School" (aka: Outlaw). For people that came up that way in the biz, and learned (or better yet - WERE TAUGHT) how to "fix logs" - that's one thing. I have friends that run for a small outfit with a dually & 5th wheel trailer (motorcycle transport) that run 3 log books, and have other friends that work for regular trucking companies that also run 2 or 3 logs.

While I understand what Brett is saying - and agree that, you can definitely make more $$ and have more flexibility "cheating" - the fact of the matter is - coupled with good time management, there is still some difficulty with running way over legal driving time - and not being EXHAUSTED. Even truck drivers need sleep.

Now - if your "boss" and dispatcher are willing to sit down and give you a class on "outlaw logging", so at least you can look somewhat kosher (since you're new at this) if your logs are inspected, and the pay is just SO GOOD that you're willing to risk this - go for it. But if (god forbid) you get in an accident and someone is badly injured or dies - they will pick apart your logs with a fine-tooth-comb, and even if you weren't at fault in the accident, if you're caught running falsified logs, it becomes CRIMINAL.

Living in NC, you have many opportunities to sign on with pretty much any carrier. With recent verifiable experience, you should get "checked out" to run solo pretty fast.

So again - unless you're being COMPENSATED in an amount commensurate with the risk you're taking (which might make it worthwhile), I would considering moving on to a carrier that would not require such risks.

Rick

Thanks Rick.

I do value sleep and safety over $, and therefore I am probably the only person at my company that actually agrees with most of the log book rules. I want neither the stress nor time expenditure wasted on running multiple logs. I also can't imagine there are any places in the truck that allow quick access to a hidden log that a thorough inspection won't find.

The compensation is definitely not worth the risk. They pay 45 cents a mile, and then an hourly rate for sitting on duty more than 2 hours. At the same time, when the "safety" guy tried to educate me on cheating logs by telling me to deduct the time I annotate for being loaded and unloaded, I was thinking to myself "wait a minute, I get paid by my logs so if I spend 4 hours at a destination and only write down 30 minutes, I just screwed myself out of 2 hours of hourly pay!".

I am going on another trip tomorrow, so I will try to come in early so that I can sit down with my dispatcher and try to help him find a load that will keep me legal, for that day at least, and also reaffirm my goal to him to drive by the book. I have hinted to them that if I get a load that is outrageously illegal and I am not even close to making the times legally, I will try to reschedule the times but if I can't, I will have to decline out. I know it hurts the company to have a driver decline an accepted load and I hate to do it, but I would hate to hurt my new commercial driving record even more.

How many units are they running there? I know a lot of people here are probably DYING to know the name of the company - but stay out of hot water and don't disclose.

Loads at .45 aren't going to make much difference, if you can't get the daily miles you need in legally. I was told in trucking school (6 years ago) that you "do what you need to do to make your dispatcher happy". Then again - there weren't that many companies on E-Logs back then either.

At the risk of being repeating myself - there are plenty of companies out there that hire out of your area, and would be appreciative of your service, experience and skill set - where the earning potential is going to be close to, if not, more than where you are currently working.

You're not likely to get THEM to change their ways - and from the sound of it - vice/versa. Demanding to "run legal", at a company where running Outlaw is SOP, is going to brand you a troublemaker.

Please keep us posted on what you decide and where you end up.

Rick

Hey guys, I've been sticking with the company and have made a little progress towards driving by the book.

Now, a new issue -

I just found out that I am a 1099 employee, not a W-2! According to the research I just completed, as a company driver who doesn't own the truck or find my own routes they should be paying me as a W-2 employee... does everybody agree?

Considering that independent contractors pay almost twice the taxes that employees do, my 45 cents a mile doesn't sound so good anymore. And the filing every 3 months is a pain as well. Is it time to find a better company, or are these issues not that serious?

Hey guys, I've been sticking with the company and have made a little progress towards driving by the book.

Now, a new issue -

I just found out that I am a 1099 employee, not a W-2! According to the research I just completed, as a company driver who doesn't own the truck or find my own routes they should be paying me as a W-2 employee... does everybody agree?

Considering that independent contractors pay almost twice the taxes that employees do, my 45 cents a mile doesn't sound so good anymore. And the filing every 3 months is a pain as well. Is it time to find a better company, or are these issues not that serious?

RUN FOREST - RUN!

You "could be' paid as a sub - but it would have been NICE TO KNOW AHEAD OF TIME, that they were going to do this.

At this point - you should have enough time under your belt, to get on with A REPUTABLE COMPANY.

Outlaw Logging - RED FLAG.

1099 Employee on a company truck - RED FLAG.

Probably don't have health insurance or vacation either.

You're going to run into a tax liability issue sooner than later, on a 1099.

This is NOT A COMPANY I would stay with much longer...

Rick

Ted,

I'm not a CPA but have done enough payroll by hand to have a bad feeling about this 1099 vs W2. You will end up paying double SS, and MC. Also I think you need to do quarterly taxes. You also need to look into some of your expenses to right off. The law is very explicit about who is a 1099, and he is supplying you equipment which makes you an employee.

Best of luck. Unless someone shops the company the IRS most likely will never know.

Do you think the tax law applies the same to both part time and full time company drivers?