What Options Do We Have With This Scale Ticket?

I would run with it and make sure there's no 4 wheeler behind me at a rolling scale on the interstate

I dunno Scott.

There's NO WAY I would want to try and produce that scale ticket at a chicken coop - KNOWING that it showed I was overweight - and knowing that there was no way to correct it by sliding or burning fuel.

A lot however, would depend on: the distance on the load - how many scale houses I had to potentially cross, and whether I could "avoid them".

Even if the fuel tanks were EMPTY (by the calculations above) you would still be 20-30 over. I believe the 400 lb APU allowance, only counts IF YOU HAVE ONE (and this example, he doesn't).

Also keep in mind - if you stay at 1/4 tank max (just to stay at 60 lbs over), you have a 350 mile range - and you really don't want to wait until you're BONE DRY to stop and fuel (and risk an inaccurate fuel gauge, PLUS all the garbage you'll be sucking into your fuel filters by running to the very bottom of the tank) -

Looking at the states he's crossing (and he missed one - there's no routing from GA to TX that's not going to pass you through LA, unless you FLY OVER) - let's assume he's going Atlanta to Dallas. He'll use I-20 the entire trip - 781 miles. That's 2 weigh stations in Ga, 2 in Alabama, 2 in Mississippi, 2 in Louisiana and 2 in Texas.

So we're talking 8 weight stations you have to roll across. Now you can TRY and go OOR to miss all of them - keeping in mind they PUT THESE WHERE THEY ARE - to make it difficult to AVOID. And many states put weight stations on "non-interstate "avoidance routes" - just to catch people that are running "Outlaw", and most of these "out of route" stations, don't use PRE-PASS.

And if, by some chance - you get tagged at ALL EIGHT - MARONE...

I think the ENTIRE POINT of the original post - was that there IS NO WAY to run the load legally. You can't balance it - the only way to run it legal, is to lose 381 lbs of cargo off the back, and slide the trailers forward one hole.

Once you've figured out there is NO WAY to run it legal at that weight - and you have to cross 8 coops to get there - then it becomes "What would YOU DO?. There are 3 parts to the problem: (a) the WEIGHT issue (and calculating whether you can get the load legal) - (b) the routing issue (and what your potential exposure is), and (c) the what would you DO issue.

I would QC my DM with the issue - so there is a RECORD OF IT - then call for instructions, and ask they be SENT ON QC. This is a CYA move - if you are instructed VERBALLY to run the load like this, and you end with a "bad outcome" - its ALL ON YOU. Having a record on QC, kinda covers your butt - even though it's STILL ALL ON YOU as the driver has final say.

If instructed on QC to RUN THE LOAD - I would verify with SAFETY that they REALLY WANT the load run this way. I'm sure as he11 not interested in being on the hook for (potentially) 8 overweight tickets (with no way of EVER getting the load legal).

I'd be reasonably certain the weight loaded is more than the weight on the BOL also. Trucking companies charge by weight & distance. It's not uncommon at all, for shippers to try and sneak some more weight onto a trailer. The salesman & load planners KNOW how much weight can go on these trucks. I see this all the time as a Longshoreman - where containers coming off the ship, way considerably more than the shipping document says they do (and the "container royalty fees" that longshoreman get paid under contract, are based on TONNAGE MOVED). An average shipload of containers coming into Port Everglades, is usually 15-20% heavier than the "declared weights". And our crane ops weigh every container they move.

Also, your CAT Scale ticket doesn't help you - it only PROVES you knew you were over. Now - if the scale ticket showed you were UNDER, and a coop said you were OVER - the CAT ticket gives you "some defense" (I think they claim to pay for tickets).

It's real cavalier for everyone to say "I'd run it anyway - what's 60 lbs". To me - it's 8 potential citations on this trip.

I'd do the above - in writing on the QC - and let the company decide what it wants me to do.

Rick

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

Interstate:

Commercial trade, business, movement of goods or money, or transportation from one state to another, regulated by the Federal Department Of Transportation (DOT).

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

CAT Scale:

A network of over 1,500 certified truck scales across the U.S. and Canada found primarily at truck stops. CAT scales are by far the most trustworthy scales out there.

In fact, CAT Scale offers an unconditional Guarantee:

“If you get an overweight fine from the state after our scale showed your legal, we will immediately check our scale. If our scale is wrong, we will reimburse you for the fine. If our scale is correct, a representative of CAT Scale Company will appear in court with the driver as a witness”

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

APU:

Auxiliary Power Unit

On tractor trailers, and APU is a small diesel engine that powers a heat and air conditioning unit while charging the truck's main batteries at the same time. This allows the driver to remain comfortable in the cab and have access to electric power without running the main truck engine.

Having an APU helps save money in fuel costs and saves wear and tear on the main engine, though they tend to be expensive to install and maintain. Therefore only a very small percentage of the trucks on the road today come equipped with an APU.

But see its only 60 pounds over and depending on the company csa and easy pass most likely to get the green light as long as the rolling scale don't pick up extra weight behind you like a 4 wheeler riding your butt... So if I would see a weigh station I'd slow down a little to get the car behind me to go around and hope I'm good with the rolling scale

I would run with it and make sure there's no 4 wheeler behind me at a rolling scale on the interstate

I dunno Scott.

There's NO WAY I would want to try and produce that scale ticket at a chicken coop - KNOWING that it showed I was overweight - and knowing that there was no way to correct it by sliding or burning fuel.

A lot however, would depend on: the distance on the load - how many scale houses I had to potentially cross, and whether I could "avoid them".

Even if the fuel tanks were EMPTY (by the calculations above) you would still be 20-30 over. I believe the 400 lb APU allowance, only counts IF YOU HAVE ONE (and this example, he doesn't).

Also keep in mind - if you stay at 1/4 tank max (just to stay at 60 lbs over), you have a 350 mile range - and you really don't want to wait until you're BONE DRY to stop and fuel (and risk an inaccurate fuel gauge, PLUS all the garbage you'll be sucking into your fuel filters by running to the very bottom of the tank) -

Looking at the states he's crossing (and he missed one - there's no routing from GA to TX that's not going to pass you through LA, unless you FLY OVER) - let's assume he's going Atlanta to Dallas. He'll use I-20 the entire trip - 781 miles. That's 2 weigh stations in Ga, 2 in Alabama, 2 in Mississippi, 2 in Louisiana and 2 in Texas.

So we're talking 8 weight stations you have to roll across. Now you can TRY and go OOR to miss all of them - keeping in mind they PUT THESE WHERE THEY ARE - to make it difficult to AVOID. And many states put weight stations on "non-interstate "avoidance routes" - just to catch people that are running "Outlaw", and most of these "out of route" stations, don't use PRE-PASS.

And if, by some chance - you get tagged at ALL EIGHT - MARONE...

I think the ENTIRE POINT of the original post - was that there IS NO WAY to run the load legally. You can't balance it - the only way to run it legal, is to lose 381 lbs of cargo off the back, and slide the trailers forward one hole.

Once you've figured out there is NO WAY to run it legal at that weight - and you have to cross 8 coops to get there - then it becomes "What would YOU DO?. There are 3 parts to the problem: (a) the WEIGHT issue (and calculating whether you can get the load legal) - (b) the routing issue (and what your potential exposure is), and (c) the what would you DO issue.

I would QC my DM with the issue - so there is a RECORD OF IT - then call for instructions, and ask they be SENT ON QC. This is a CYA move - if you are instructed VERBALLY to run the load like this, and you end with a "bad outcome" - its ALL ON YOU. Having a record on QC, kinda covers your butt - even though it's STILL ALL ON YOU as the driver has final say.

If instructed on QC to RUN THE LOAD - I would verify with SAFETY that they REALLY WANT the load run this way. I'm sure as he11 not interested in being on the hook for (potentially) 8 overweight tickets (with no way of EVER getting the load legal).

I'd be reasonably certain the weight loaded is more than the weight on the BOL also. Trucking companies charge by weight & distance. It's not uncommon at all, for shippers to try and sneak some more weight onto a trailer. The salesman & load planners KNOW how much weight can go on these trucks. I see this all the time as a Longshoreman - where containers coming off the ship, way considerably more than the shipping document says they do (and the "container royalty fees" that longshoreman get paid under contract, are based on TONNAGE MOVED). An average shipload of containers coming into Port Everglades, is usually 15-20% heavier than the "declared weights". And our crane ops weigh every container they move.

Also, your CAT Scale ticket doesn't help you - it only PROVES you knew you were over. Now - if the scale ticket showed you were UNDER, and a coop said you were OVER - the CAT ticket gives you "some defense" (I think they claim to pay for tickets).

It's real cavalier for everyone to say "I'd run it anyway - what's 60 lbs". To me - it's 8 potential citations on this trip.

I'd do the above - in writing on the QC - and let the company decide what it wants me to do.

Rick

Rick, my good friend, I think you're totally flipping out about this. It's just 60lb on the drives. All other weights are easily legal. Heck, if he wants he can slide his fifth wheel one hole forward to take weight off the drives. I personally run with 12,650lb on my steers 24/7 and have done so for over a year now. Never a word. It's been my experience that DOT is extremely strict about the gross weight much more than the axle weights.

Also, I highly doubt the shipper will reload you just because of 60lb. They're extrenely busy and don't have time for that.

This load will be an annoyance, but easily doable. I wouldn't think twice about driving it. I hate to admit, but this wouldn't even make the top 5 list of the worst I've done. There's not a single driver out there that hasn't done anything illegal.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Interstate:

Commercial trade, business, movement of goods or money, or transportation from one state to another, regulated by the Federal Department Of Transportation (DOT).

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

CAT Scale:

A network of over 1,500 certified truck scales across the U.S. and Canada found primarily at truck stops. CAT scales are by far the most trustworthy scales out there.

In fact, CAT Scale offers an unconditional Guarantee:

“If you get an overweight fine from the state after our scale showed your legal, we will immediately check our scale. If our scale is wrong, we will reimburse you for the fine. If our scale is correct, a representative of CAT Scale Company will appear in court with the driver as a witness”

TWIC:

Transportation Worker Identification Credential

Truck drivers who regularly pick up from or deliver to the shipping ports will often be required to carry a TWIC card.

Your TWIC is a tamper-resistant biometric card which acts as both your identification in secure areas, as well as an indicator of you having passed the necessary security clearance. TWIC cards are valid for five years. The issuance of TWIC cards is overseen by the Transportation Security Administration and the Department of Homeland Security.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

APU:

Auxiliary Power Unit

On tractor trailers, and APU is a small diesel engine that powers a heat and air conditioning unit while charging the truck's main batteries at the same time. This allows the driver to remain comfortable in the cab and have access to electric power without running the main truck engine.

Having an APU helps save money in fuel costs and saves wear and tear on the main engine, though they tend to be expensive to install and maintain. Therefore only a very small percentage of the trucks on the road today come equipped with an APU.

But see its only 60 pounds over and depending on the company csa and easy pass most likely to get the green light as long as the rolling scale don't pick up extra weight behind you like a 4 wheeler riding your butt... So if I would see a weigh station I'd slow down a little to get the car behind me to go around and hope I'm good with the rolling scale

There's some leeway and forgiveness involved in weights - and 60 lbs really isn't a whole lot. You could "probably" get away with it.

I'd do as above (with QC communications) and also add that I'd like to see on the QC, that the COMPANY will pay for any citations for overweight.

Then I would do a THOROUGH PRE-TRIP on the entire rig - to make sure there are no (potential) violations - as, if you get pulled in for weight - the odds of a LEVEL I inspection go WAY UP.

Again - 60 lbs is not a big deal. Not even worth writing the citation (most states are base on the citation + $ .01 per pound under 1,000). But still you have the potential exposure of 8 citations on this route.

I researched the route, and counted the weight stations enroute. I did trip planning/logistics back when I managed a band and had my own bus. Cost/time effective routing, etc. - we did month-long national tours.

I'm just not 100% comfortable with "crossing my fingers" and praying across 8 weigh stations.

I would have loved to have seen the BOL on this load - just to see what the shipper "claimed" to have loaded.

Rick

But see its only 60 pounds over and depending on the company csa and easy pass most likely to get the green light as long as the rolling scale don't pick up extra weight behind you like a 4 wheeler riding your butt... So if I would see a weigh station I'd slow down a little to get the car behind me to go around and hope I'm good with the rolling scale

There's some leeway and forgiveness involved in weights - and 60 lbs really isn't a whole lot. You could "probably" get away with it.

I'd do as above (with QC communications) and also add that I'd like to see on the QC, that the COMPANY will pay for any citations for overweight.

Then I would do a THOROUGH PRE-TRIP on the entire rig - to make sure there are no (potential) violations - as, if you get pulled in for weight - the odds of a LEVEL I inspection go WAY UP.

Again - 60 lbs is not a big deal. Not even worth writing the citation (most states are base on the citation + $ .01 per pound under 1,000). But still you have the potential exposure of 8 citations on this route.

I researched the route, and counted the weight stations enroute. I did trip planning/logistics back when I managed a band and had my own bus. Cost/time effective routing, etc. - we did month-long national tours.

I'm just not 100% comfortable with "crossing my fingers" and praying across 8 weigh stations.

I would have loved to have seen the BOL on this load - just to see what the shipper "claimed" to have loaded.

Rick

Agreed with all that. I think this would be an ideal night driving load. You'll have the advantage of no wait times at fuel islands and greater chance that the weigh stations will be closed.

Rick, my good friend, I think you're totally flipping out about this. It's just 60lb on the drives. All other weights are easily legal. Heck, if he wants he can slide his fifth wheel one hole forward to take weight off the drives. I personally run with 12,650lb on my steers 24/7 and have done so for over a year now. Never a word. It's been my experience that DOT is extremely strict about the gross weight much more than the axle weights.

Also, I highly doubt the shipper will reload you just because of 60lb. They're extrenely busy and don't have time for that.

This load will be an annoyance, but easily doable. I wouldn't think twice about driving it. I hate to admit, but this wouldn't even make the top 5 list of the worst I've done. There's not a single driver out there that hasn't done anything illegal.

I hear you Daniel.

I'm one of those "deep thinkers" (hence, running all the math, routing, weigh stations, etc.)

I was up late last night - bored - and ran all the math.

Sliding the 5th wheel forward - would shift 500 lbs onto the steers (making them 12,380 - illegal).

Brett's WEIGHT AND BALANCE section of HRT is my favorite one - really makes you think. I think I even wrote an excel spreadsheet with all the equations in it (back when he first put it up) - so you could just plug in your numbers.

I'm not driving yet - still doing my BORING computer gig - so I probably have too much time on my hands to "over-think" this stuff . I'm admittedly going INSANE at the moment.

Still trying to make the decision whether to dump everything and drive, or "accept my fate" and stay doing the IT work (our fate is what WE MAKE IT).

At any rate, after careful reflection:

I would run the load - after informing the company via QC that it was slightly overweight, and waiting for them to tell me to go ahead and run it. And I would make

Sorry to be such a testicle-buster.

The main point I was trying to make was - there is NO WAY, by sliding or burning fuel - to make this load legal. And I'd be making a lot of fuel stops to stay under 1/4 tank and not make it any MORE illegal.

You're lucky - you're running an LW. This load would likely be legal for you.

How many pounds does your 5th Wheel shift on that rig?

Rick

I think there is one caveat that has not been mentioned or discussed yet (unless it was mentioned and I missed it)... I believe everybody is going under the presumption that the trailer is loaded to the gills. Since there is no mention what the load is or how much space it takes in the trailer.... If it is just something heavy loaded on pallets, there is the possibility that just moving the load back a bit in the trailer would be enough to take care of the whole thing.... putting axle weight where it should be and still taking the full load as intended. IF it's all pallets and not taking up all the floor space in the trailer, 20 minutes a dock and a pallet jack may be all that's needed to fix it... if not, well then we're back to square one.

You're lucky - you're running an LW. This load would likely be legal for you.

Oh I wouldn't even scale this load out. Honestly, and I don't recommend anyone to follow my footsteps, I cant even remember the last time I used a CAT scale. Maybe 4 months ago?

My fifth wheel moves about 450 per hole. But like I said earlier, I never touch it and haven't ever touched it since I got the truck in June.

Having a LW truck has its advantages for sure. But not everyone can live with such small storage space, you really need to be good in tight spaces and be crafty with how you use the space.

If you don't know what a LW truck is check out my thread below for a full summary and exterior/interior pictures.

LW trucks