Hours Of Service Question (Time At Shipper/Reciever)

As far as the 8/2 split is concern; I am fairly sure it has to be an 8 then a 2. If I am wrong, Brett or someone correct me. But I am 95% sure that is how it is.

You can't do 2 then 8.

As far as the 8/2 split is concern; I am fairly sure it has to be an 8 then a 2. If I am wrong, Brett or someone correct me. But I am 95% sure that is how it is.

You can't do 2 then 8.

You CAN do 2/8.... You can do the 8 without the two also. Taking the 8 alone will pause your 14 clock.

As long as you do at least two, and at least 8 on sleeper regardless of when it will work

You CAN do 2/8.... You can do the 8 without the two also. Taking the 8 alone will pause your 14 clock.

As long as you do at least two, and at least 8 on sleeper regardless of when it will work

The problem with the 2 is - it doesn't stop your 14 - nothing LESS THAN an 8 does.

The other problem with trying to use the split, with the 2 hour break first is: After the second of the two qualifying rest breaks, the 11-hour and 14-hour limits are calculated (starting at zero (0)) from the end of the first of the two breaks.

So, depending on how much you drive AFTER the "2 hour break" - resetting your 11/14 back to the end of THAT BREAK - is going to be almost useless - because taking your 8 hour break as your SECOND BREAK, also counts on your 14, and still leaves you with almost nothing on your 14.

At that point (taking your 8 hours as a second break), you might as well just stay on sleeper/off duty for the additional 2 hours - make it a 10 hour break and reset both clocks to the end of the 10 hour break.

This is why you really don't hear about folks using the 2 hour break first, when trying to do a split sleeper - just doesn't make a whole lot of sense.

But, back to the original question - you want to spend as MUCH WAIT TIME AT THE SHIPPER TIME LEGALLY ALLOWABLE in off duty or sleeper to save on your 70 HOUR CLOCK.

Calculating how split sleeper works is a fun exercise. Running your 70 out and trying to run on pure recaps can get cumbersome. A few guys do it and have no problems with it. Most folks would care to preserve their 70 as best as possible, and take a RESET if they have to start running on recaps.

Rick

I'm not going to go into this too much, but whatever you say about the 2/8 can also be said about the 8/2.

What it really all boils down to is knowing about it and being able too make it work for you. If you're at the shipper for 1.75 hours you may want to consider staying for another.25 hours so you may have the option of getting rolling after an 8hour break instead of 10. Or it may just be better for you to leave immediately and not wait at all.

You can come up with different scenarios which it is either correct or not correct to split your breaks. Its just another tool for trip planning.

I'm not going to go into this too much, but whatever you say about the 2/8 can also be said about the 8/2.

What it really all boils down to is knowing about it and being able too make it work for you. If you're at the shipper for 1.75 hours you may want to consider staying for another.25 hours so you may have the option of getting rolling after an 8hour break instead of 10. Or it may just be better for you to leave immediately and not wait at all.

You can come up with different scenarios which it is either correct or not correct to split your breaks. Its just another tool for trip planning.

To reiterate on doing the split as a 2/8 (versus an 8/2). At the end of the 2nd break (the 8 in this case) your 14/11 clocks reset to where they were at the end of the FIRST BREAK (the 2 hour break in this case). So the 8 hour break you JUST TOOK (to complete the split) eats into your FOURTEEN HOUR CLOCK.

Which means - if you took a 2 hour break - drove an hour, then took an 8 hour break (and this is easy numbers, simply to illustrate) - you would have used 9 hours on your 14 (because your 11/14 reset to 0 from the end of the FIRST BREAK) - leaving 5 hours on your 14 left to drive. Since the 11 hour clock resets back to the end of the 1st break - and you only drove an hour AFTER the first break - you would have 10 hours on your 11 hour clock - and only 5 hours on your 14.

Pretty much useless. Might as well just sit for another 2 hours, and make the 8 hour second break of the split into a regular old 10 hour break - at which point your 11 & 14's are BOTH RESET TO ZERO.

Versus if you took an 8 hour break FIRST - your 14 FREEZES for the 8 hour break - giving you those 8 hours plus whatever was left of your 11/14 to continue driving.

Yes - it's a trip planning tool, and you might need to do the 2/8 to grab an extra hour or two after the split. But if you clocks are that messed up - you're likely not yet effective at managing them.

Same as if you are constantly running on recaps (and refusing to do a reset) - we have a couple folks on here that do that - and they force themselves to run 8-9 hour days, because that's all they have available. And they stay ON DUTY at shippers, so they can recover that time back on the 8th day - instead of rebuilding their 70 by not using it AT ALL.

Diffrent strokes I guess...

Rick

IMHO the best thing for all drivers to do is try it when you have time on a run and see for themselves how it works to understand it properly.

There have been times I have use it as a 2/8 and couldn't do it any other way. Not due to my trio planning but to ridiculous appt times or even traffic accidents which then prevented me from taking a full 10.

I think everyone should understand it in the event they need them. As for 34s, my FM doesn't allow them other than home time or truck repairs. That is his choice and he then has to find me loads I can make with my clock. Its usually only one day so not a huge deal.

Wasn't trying to bust on Rainy, Isaac or anyone else BTW.

Hugs to all...

Just trying to give some detailed examples of how these splits work.

Rick

Wasn't trying to bust on Rainy, Isaac or anyone else BTW.

Hugs to all...

Just trying to give some detailed examples of how these splits work.

Rick

But no offense....you are wrong. I know cause i just did it. Am trying to post the pics of QC but photobucket won't let me sign in to upload.

Its true your clocks start at the end of the first break, but the 8 sleeper still pauses that 14 hour clock.

So.if you break for two hours, drive for one hour then go 8 sleeper....you are not getting back 5 hours on the 14/as you said.

What you get is 10 on drive clock and 13 on the 14 clock.

You DO deduct the drive between the two....but then deduct the 8 sleeper as well.

Today I went to customer and had 4 hours off to unload. The next stop postponed my appt time to Friday. I was told to return to the yard and wait for another load.

Start: 04:12

Unload: 05:47 was off duty 4 hrs 31 min

Drove: @ 10:18. For 1 hr 44 min

On duty fuel: 12:02. For 7 min

Sleeper: @12:09 for 8 hours

Time on my clock?

Drive 09:16

14 hour: 12:09

I can message u the pics if u can upload them so ppl can understand and see for themselves.

Wasn't trying to bust on Rainy, Isaac or anyone else BTW.

Hugs to all...

Just trying to give some detailed examples of how these splits work.

Rick

But no offense....you are wrong. I know cause i just did it. Am trying to post the pics of QC but photobucket won't let me sign in to upload.

Its true your clocks start at the end of the first break, but the 8 sleeper still pauses that 14 hour clock.

So.if you break for two hours, drive for one hour then go 8 sleeper....you are not getting back 5 hours on the 14/as you said.

What you get is 10 on drive clock and 13 on the 14 clock.

You DO deduct the drive between the two....but then deduct the 8 sleeper as well.

Today I went to customer and had 4 hours off to unload. The next stop postponed my appt time to Friday. I was told to return to the yard and wait for another load.

Start: 04:12

Unload: 05:47 was off duty 4 hrs 31 min

Drove: @ 10:18. For 1 hr 44 min

On duty fuel: 12:02. For 7 min

Sleeper: @12:09 for 8 hours

Time on my clock?

Drive 09:16

14 hour: 12:09

I can message u the pics if u can upload them so ppl can understand and see for themselves.

I stand corrected - thanks for the example, that forced me to dig a little deeper into the reg. Typical "log book examples" almost always seem to use the 8 hour break FIRST.

But I just found THIS: (which is actually pretty difficult to find): 49 CFR 395.1(g)(1)

(g)(1)(ii)(B) Calculation of the 11-hour driving limit includes all driving time; compliance must be re-calculated from the end of the first of the two periods used to comply with paragraph (g)(1)(ii)(A) of this section.

(g)(1)(ii)(C) Calculation of the 14-hour limit includes all time except any sleeper-berth period of at least 8 but less than 10 consecutive hours; compliance must be re-calculated from the end of the first of the two periods used to comply with the requirements of paragraph (g)(1)(ii)(A) of this section.

The ACTUAL TEXT of the Rule, which is as incredibly convoluted as you would expect any federal regulation to be.

Essentially - what the rule says is both clocks reset to the end of the FIRST BREAK (so in your example Rainy - you still had the 1:44 you drove added to the 7 minutes of OD fueling) but, per 49 CFR 395.1(g)(1)(ii)(C) - the 8 hour sleeper that you took SECOND - doesn't count on the 14.

Can you tell I've been working for LAWYERS for the last 30+ years?

Before ELogs become somewhat universal - a lot of companies didn't even allow folks to use the "split provision", because the confusion on the proper way to use it was creating too many log violations and OOS's at weigh stations.

I have ZERO PROBLEMS being proven wrong - I strive to be as accurate as possible. You CAN teach an old dog new tricks.

Kisses to Rainy for bringing this to my attention...

Rick

The other weird interesting thing - if you take the TWO BREAK FIRST - is that your clocks DO NOT RESET - until the completion of the 2nd (in this case the 8) break. So you can't figure your recalc until you take the 2nd break. Taking the 8 first makes it pretty easy, but you still have to be mindful not to "overdrive" either clock, because they don't "technically" recalc/zero to the end of the FIRST BREAK, until you have COMPLETED THE SECOND ONE.

Rainy - I'm curious if there's a macro or similar in your QC that tells it you are taking the split - so it correctly calculates your remaining hours until you have to take THE SECOND BREAK?

I'm assuming it doesn't just "automatically do split sleeper" and you have to actually tell it to?

Rick