Am I Required To CLOCK OUT To Satisfy New 30 Minute Break Rule???

My company has decided that it must clock me out in order to satisfy the new DOT 30 minute break rule.

I don't see this requirement (clocking the driver out) in the actual regulations - just that the driver must be "off duty".

My company has always allowed me to take a 30 minute lunch break with pay. So I have been in 100% compliance with the intent of this (new) rule for years and years.

Now they think they have to clock me out in order for me to be in compliance.

By clocking me out for 30 minutes, and not changing my pay otherwise, this is a substantial pay cut for me.

It basically wipes out my last 3 raises, going back nearly 4 years.

My raises have averaged less than 1.5% a year for the last 6 years I have been with this company, which is less than the rate of inflation over that time - and I have never complained about this and am not complaining now.

CUTTING my pay and wiping out my last 3 raises DOES cause this dog to whine.

I have googled this issue and found lots of confusion from people - both managers and drivers.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

By the way everyone in my company is allowed a 30 minute lunch with pay (office workers, warehouse workers, crew members).

John, welcome to the forum! I'm assuming you are being paid by the hour from what you've said, but correct me if that's wrong. I'm an over the road driver and all I do is put my self on either the off duty line on my logs or the sleeper berth line. If your driving job is such that you don't have to keep a log book (like within 150 mile radius) you may very well have to clock out .

Yep got to be on line 1 or 2 for 30mins in an 8hr period of on-duty time. My e-log will now only give me 8hrs and reset that 8hrs after a 30min break. After I've done my break and there is only less than 8hrs on my 11/14 hr day the clock will give me what is left to drive for the day.

Thanks for your response.

I do keep a log book - but I also stay within 150 miles on probably 95% of my days driving.

I start a log every single day in case I go over 100 miles (that is the critical distance we have always been told) and/or work over 12 hours. Most days I don't have to turn one in.

Can I ask what is your source for basing your answer on whether or not I keep a log book?

I assume it is just because a log book allows me to document the details of my day, which is what DOT is looking for when they come to audit us.

If that is the case, then is there some other form of documentation (other than clocking us out) to make those guys happy?

Why can't I just turn in a log book every single day whether I am required to or not?

It seems to me that the new rule could be interpreted to say that from now on all drivers must keep a log book every single day just to show that the 30 minute break was taken!

If that would satisfy them then it beats the heck out of this pay cut that I am grinning and bearing. A very small burden (relatively speaking).

John, that is exactly how I would handle this situation, were I you. Turn in a log book every day. This will satisfy the D.O.T. Now whether it satisfies your employer or not I cannot say. It would be a legal and ethical way of handling the matter though. Having been an employer for thirty years I can't imagine why they haven't come up with their own simple solution so that they could keep you happy at your job.

Sorry I didn't specifically answer your question about why I asked you about the log book. Yes your assumption is correct. They need some form of documentation to have on file. I can only assume they chose the easiest option for them which is to have a time card showing that you clocked out. They probably don't want to have to keep up with the logs. I really don't know - you may have a better feeling for that since you work there, but a simple log book record showing you were off duty for thirty minutes or more will satisfy the law.

Ok, as far as the new 30 minute logbook break provision, here is the statement straight from the Final ruling on logbook changes from the FMCSA :

Driving is not permitted if more than 8 hours have passed since the end of the driver’s last off-duty or sleeper-berth period of at least 30 minutes. In other words, driving is prohibited if more than 8 consecutive hours have passed since a driver’s last off-duty or sleeper-berth break of at least 30 minutes; after taking such a break (or a longer one), the driver may resume driving, provided he or she does not exceed the 11-hour driving limit

So you do in fact need to be in the sleeper berth or off-duty. So if you're being paid by the hour, it would be hard to argue that the company can't make you logout for 30 minutes. It is indeed a 30 minute break. Now the ethics or "job perks" of having a paid break isn't really for me to decide - that's up to each company to handle their way. But legally they can do it, and I'm sure they're doing it not only to save money to protect themselves from DOT audits.

As far as whether or not you'll need a logbook, hopefully this will help a bit. This is taken from the FMCSA HOS Frequently Asked Questions

C-6. How would you summarize the 100 air-mile radius HOS provision in § 395.1(e)(1)?

The 100 air-mile radius exception in Part § 395.1(e)(1) is an option to use time records in lieu of RODS on days when the driver meets the conditions of the exception, which are:

- The driver operates within a 100 air-mile ( 115 statute miles) radius of the normal work reporting location, and

- The driver returns to the work reporting location and be released from duty within 12 consecutive hours, and

- The driver maintains time records as specified in the rule, and

- The driver is not covered by the "non-CDL 150 air-mile radius" provision.

C-7. May a "100 air-mile radius" driver utilize the "16-hour duty period" exception in Part § 395.1(o)?

Yes. A driver normally operating under the 100 air-mile radius exception in § 395.1(e) may also meet the requirements in § 395.1(o) enabling the driver to have one period of 16 hours on-duty each week (or after a 34-hour restart). However, on the day in which the 16-hour exception is utilized, the driver would not meet the 12-hour duty-period requirement of the 100 air-mile radius exception and would therefore be required to make a RODS for that day.

Maybe that helps, maybe it's even more confusing now. That's the government for ya

Thanks so much for the helpful responses.

I would love to talk personally to someone in my area who is actually responsible for enforcing DOT rules. I don't even know where to start with that. The highway patrol? A federal agency of some kind?

I mean, who would be the best official source to answer my question (I would think that it would be someone whose job it is to actually come in and audit us).

I live in a pretty big metro area (Oklahoma City), so I would think I could find someone here who could personally answer this issue matter-of-factly for me and my employer.

Thanks again!

I would love to talk personally to someone in my area who is actually responsible for enforcing DOT rules. I don't even know where to start with that. The highway patrol? A federal agency of some kind?

I mean, who would be the best official source to answer my question (I would think that it would be someone whose job it is to actually come in and audit us).

John D. I hope I don't burst your bubble about talking to someone. I have worked for my company for 5 years and have wanted to talk to someone in the "know" on DOT regs and laws since I started driving commercially.

On my own, I have talked to different DOT officers. What I have found out, no two officers completely agree on what the laws say.

The sad part is, a lot of the laws are open to interpretation. My company says I am off duty if I am parked waiting to pick my customers up. DOT guidelines say if I am waiting (since buses don't have sleepers) I am on duty. Depending on what officer I have talked to, is what point of view they take.

One time in NYC, DOT "downed" a bus because it's dash lights were out. They just went out as he was going through the tunnel (so the driver said). It was just turning daylight. DOT would not let him drive it to a garage. Even though it was becoming light, they had to have it towed to the garage. When I got home, I ran into a DOT officer and asked him about it. He said there is no actual regulation about that. But it can be deemed a safety hazard. Therefore, it was "downed".

So if DOT agents can't agree, how can drivers fully comply.

Good luck out there.

Joe S.