Jct Lease Purchase

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JakeBreak's Comment
member avatar

I'm not interested in LO or OO, but I am curious, is there ever a situation where LO or OO works?

From all that I've seen, it just doesn't work, so, unless there is a scenario where it does, why would anyone ever want to pursue it?

There are a couple of what I would consider valid reasons to do it. But there are many more spouted off by people that have no idea how the business works. I know a couple successful o/o and they all started out with owning their own truck. Not making payments at all. And they work hard at it and make maybe a couple grand more a year than a company driver. The main reason they still deal with it is the pride of owning their truck. They know they aren't going to get rich but they still do it for that pride. I considered it and based on their advice they told me to work company for anywhere from 5 to 10 years and save to buy the truck outright then if I still wanted to do then I should do it.

Old School's Comment
member avatar
I am curious, is there ever a situation where LO or OO works?

Sambo, it can work. I know several guys who are leasing trucks and they are making it work. I had a nice phone call today from a friend who is a member here in Trucking Truth who is leasing from Prime. For him it works.

Here's the deal: you have to quantify what "making it work" means to you. My friend that I spoke with today likes to be able to choose his own new truck rather than take what they assign to a company driver. That is important to him. He likes to be able to choose the areas that he runs freight in. He likes to be able to refuse a load if it is not to his liking. All of those things are important to him. None of them mean a thing to me. I'm here for the ride, wherever it takes me, and in which ever truck they put me in. The company never keeps old beaters around anyway, so I'm good with what they give me. I would bet you a fair amount of money I'm clearing more money than he is, but he is willing to give some of the money up so that he can get the things that he thinks are important to him. He is also willing to take the associated risks to be able to have things the way he wants them to be.

Here's the dirty little secret that good solid company drivers understand: When you have established yourself as a really savvy dependable driver these trucking companies will just about bend over backward for you. My DM will accommodate me in all kinds of ways. There is not a week that goes by where he doesn't give me a choice of my loads, sometimes handing me a list of ten or twelve different loads and then asking me, "which one of these would you like to do?" This month I needed to take ten days off for some medical issues. I got the time off, and I didn't have to worry about making a truck payment. When I was ready to roll they put me right back on the road and dispatched me with over 6,200 miles the next two weeks.

They put me into an almost brand new truck (40,000 miles on it) when I started here. I get to choose my loads, and in so doing I get to choose which parts of the country I'm running in. Just last week my dispatcher called me and said, "Here's the two best loads I've got out of Louisiana today. One finals up in Wisconsin, or I've got one that finals over on the east coast in North Carolina. You tell me which one you want and I'll put it on you." Now, why would I ever want to take all the problems and responsibilities that come with leasing a truck when I have got it this good?

I've got several years of experience that help me know what I'm doing out here, and because of that I do really well. I've made and lost all kinds of money in business, I know the ins and outs of being an employer and trying to make a profit. This business is really crazy tight when it comes to margins. A good solid company driver has got it made in my opinion, but most people never put in what it takes to get to that point. They get distracted with those big sounding numbers that lease operators gross, and they lose all their good sense and start chasing after dollars that are never going to be theirs. Gross and Net lose all their true meaning for most of these lease operators, but there are a few out here that make it work, and some of them are right here in our own forum.

Dispatcher:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Anchorman's Comment
member avatar
Don't knock the man for trying to show what can happen and I wish him all the luck

I wasn't.

Old School's Comment
member avatar
I know a couple successful o/o and they all started out with owning their own truck. Not making payments at all. And they work hard at it and make maybe a couple grand more a year than a company driver. The main reason they still deal with it is the pride of owning their truck. They know they aren't going to get rich but they still do it for that pride. I considered it and based on their advice they told me to work company for anywhere from 5 to 10 years and save to buy the truck outright then if I still wanted to do then I should do it.

I knew I shouldn't have started commenting on this thread, I always get sucked in to these conversations on leasing. Brett is probably shaking his head right now, and saying, "Old School, I told you we are not going to discuss this anymore - what part of that do you not understand?"

JakeBreak, this is another common misunderstanding about truck ownership. Just because you can buy a truck outright so that you don't have payments to make doesn't make it any more sensible than making the payments on it. In business, an expense is an expense, is an expense. It doesn't matter when you make it. You can make it up front or you can make it out in payments, conserving some of your capital for possible needs down the road. But one thing about any business investment is that you have got to recoup the money or you are just squandering it.

Now the man who buys a truck out right with cash up front has not only got to have a plan for getting that money back in his coffers, but he also has got to be putting enough aside so that he can invest in another one in a few years. If he can't accomplish both of those goals at the same time he is losing money. These things don't last forever, and the man who is running the roads like he should, is going to need to replace the used unit he was able to afford, in just a few years. It really doesn't matter how you slice the pie, there is still only so much of it to go around. It is a daunting challenge to make all that work while still paying yourself enough money to make it come out so that you are making more than a really good company driver. For me, pride of ownership is not worth the price you pay for it.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
JakeBreak's Comment
member avatar

double-quotes-start.png

I know a couple successful o/o and they all started out with owning their own truck. Not making payments at all. And they work hard at it and make maybe a couple grand more a year than a company driver. The main reason they still deal with it is the pride of owning their truck. They know they aren't going to get rich but they still do it for that pride. I considered it and based on their advice they told me to work company for anywhere from 5 to 10 years and save to buy the truck outright then if I still wanted to do then I should do it.

double-quotes-end.png

I knew I shouldn't have started commenting on this thread, I always get sucked in to these conversations on leasing. Brett is probably shaking his head right now, and saying, "Old School, I told you we are not going to discuss this anymore - what part of that do you not understand?"

JakeBreak, this is another common misunderstanding about truck ownership. Just because you can buy a truck outright so that you don't have payments to make doesn't make it any more sensible than making the payments on it. In business, an expense is an expense, is an expense. It doesn't matter when you make it. You can make it up front or you can make it out in payments, conserving some of your capital for possible needs down the road. But one thing about any business investment is that you have got to recoup the money or you are just squandering it.

Now the man who buys a truck out right with cash up front has not only got to have a plan for getting that money back in his coffers, but he also has got to be putting enough aside so that he can invest in another one in a few years. If he can't accomplish both of those goals at the same time he is losing money. These things don't last forever, and the man who is running the roads like he should, is going to need to replace the used unit he was able to afford, in just a few years. It really doesn't matter how you slice the pie, there is still only so much of it to go around. It is a daunting challenge to make all that work while still paying yourself enough money to make it come out so that you are making more than a really good company driver. For me, pride of ownership is not worth the price you pay for it.

I totally get that OS. It takes a solid financial backing to be able to do It and honestly I know I'm never going to have that kind of money to be able to do it. Like I was saying that is what was told to me when I started finding owner ops that seemed to have their act together. They said start out by owning the truck. I know there is a ton more that goes on with that. Especially financially. I stopped asking questions there tho because I know i will probably never have that kind of money. I'm happy being a company driver and that's probably how I will retire. There are just a very few that can make o/o work and the majority can't. I'm part of the majority on this one.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar
I knew I shouldn't have started commenting on this thread, I always get sucked into these conversations on leasing. Brett is probably shaking his head right now, and saying, "Old School, I told you we are not going to discuss this anymore - what part of that do you not understand?"

rofl-3.gif

No I'm thrilled because it was your turn to fall for this! I just fell for it a few days ago. I still don't know how it happened. I think I was gonna try to sneak in a quick point or two and get out quick but all of a sudden I was in it up to my ears!

shocked.png

they told me to work company for anywhere from 5 to 10 years and save to buy the truck outright then if I still wanted to do then I should do it

Old School had a good point about this and I wanted to add to this also. A savvy businessman knows one thing above all else - Cash is king and when you're out of cash, you're out of business.

If you buy the truck outright what is the risk/reward ratio? The reward with today's all-time record low interest rate environment is that you save a few percentage points in financing. In the end it's peanuts, really. You could buy baloney and peanut butter and jelly instead of roast beef and save the same amount of money.

But what is the risk? The risk is that you've just given away a massive sum of cash that would have served you far better as a safety net. Now you have very little margin for error. I would argue that's a terrible business strategy.

Here's the dirty little secret that good solid company drivers understand: When you have established yourself as a really savvy dependable driver these trucking companies will just about bend over backward for you.

This is indeed the big thing that most drivers never seem to figure out somehow. If you'll stick with a company for a long time and set yourself apart as one of their top drivers, that's when you'll really have it made. They really will do everything in their power to keep you happy, exactly the same way you've proven you'll do for them. Turnover is the biggest problem these trucking companies face. When a driver sticks around and does an amazing job they become one of the cornerstones that keeps the coming moving forward. These are the drivers turning the big miles safely and taking care of the company's most important, most demanding, and best paying customers.

When you're a proven top tier driver and you turn big miles safely and consistently don't you think you deserve one of the nicest trucks? Of course! The top salary? Of course! Access to their best freight? Naturally! A special favor once in a while? Absolutely! I mean, how could they say no, right? On what grounds? If you've proven you're one of the best in every way then you deserve to be treated the best in every way. You're a rare find and they know it. If they lose you they know you'll take your fantastic skills to one of their competitors and their competitor will laugh their *sses off all the way to the bank. So they're simply not going to let that happen if they can help it.

You don't have to buy or lease a truck to have your way. You can earn it as a company driver and forget about all of the headaches, risks, and extra work that comes with owning a business. Just enjoy driving someone else's fancy truck hauling the company's best freight and getting treated well by your company.

When you're a company driver and your truck breaks down the company pays for a hotel room and kicks in a little layover pay. You get a mini paid vacation! Woo hoo!

dancing-dog.gif

But if you own or lease the truck and it breaks down......oh man......you get what feels like an expensive prison term with a minor bout of depression.

sorry.gif

DAC:

Drive-A-Check Report

A truck drivers DAC report will contain detailed information about their job history of the last 10 years as a CDL driver (as required by the DOT).

It may also contain your criminal history, drug test results, DOT infractions and accident history. The program is strictly voluntary from a company standpoint, but most of the medium-to-large carriers will participate.

Most trucking companies use DAC reports as part of their hiring and background check process. It is extremely important that drivers verify that the information contained in it is correct, and have it fixed if it's not.

Truckin Along With Kearse's Comment
member avatar

I can see the point of "what is successful or important to you". Everyone has different ideas. I'm not really materialistic and don't have kids. I live on the truck with little overhead. So as nuts as it might sound to some... if my FM is on vacation and I get 2000 miles instead of my norm.. I don't care. I rent a hotel room and order pizza and enjoy. It's almost like taking the rest at home.

I never had any interest in leasing and think it's misguided for someone who has no idea how an industry works to go into lease/ownership. Its almost like a college freshman being handed a doctorate degree at the end of his first year.

We pretty much established that many rookies have some sorts of issues hitting things. So why use your own truck to smash things? Or experiment with maintenance? I learned so much from the mechanics.... but I should know that stuff already if I'm going to own.

My trainer owned and she would run us hard and make a lot of money. She learned the routes to know which areas had higher paying loads. She knew that it might make sense to take a lower paying load into one area to get a high paying load out. She would go to driver line up and call the FM to compare loads. She also constantly shopped for fuel and parts or maintenance sales. But then she also would take weeks off at a time. So all that hard work seemed useless to me. To her it was worth it to spend time at home with friends. I do t have any friends.... no one likes me ;)

So I'm happy with just me and my cat on my company truck.... alone.. with no frriends but you all.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Truckin Along With Kearse's Comment
member avatar

double-quotes-start.png

I knew I shouldn't have started commenting on this thread, I always get sucked into these conversations on leasing. Brett is probably shaking his head right now, and saying, "Old School, I told you we are not going to discuss this anymore - what part of that do you not understand?"

double-quotes-end.png

rofl-3.gif

No I'm thrilled because it was your turn to fall for this! I just fell for it a few days ago. I still don't know how it happened. I think I was gonna try to sneak in a quick point or two and get out quick but all of a sudden I was in it up to my ears!

shocked.png

double-quotes-start.png

they told me to work company for anywhere from 5 to 10 years and save to buy the truck outright then if I still wanted to do then I should do it

double-quotes-end.png

Old School had a good point about this and I wanted to add to this also. A savvy businessman knows one thing above all else - Cash is king and when you're out of cash, you're out of business.

If you buy the truck outright what is the risk/reward ratio? The reward with today's all-time record low interest rate environment is that you save a few percentage points in financing. In the end it's peanuts, really. You could buy baloney and peanut butter and jelly instead of roast beef and save the same amount of money.

But what is the risk? The risk is that you've just given away a massive sum of cash that would have served you far better as a safety net. Now you have very little margin for error. I would argue that's a terrible business strategy.

double-quotes-start.png

Here's the dirty little secret that good solid company drivers understand: When you have established yourself as a really savvy dependable driver these trucking companies will just about bend over backward for you.

double-quotes-end.png

This is indeed the big thing that most drivers never seem to figure out somehow. If you'll stick with a company for a long time and set yourself apart as one of their top drivers, that's when you'll really have it made. They really will do everything in their power to keep you happy, exactly the same way you've proven you'll do for them. Turnover is the biggest problem these trucking companies face. When a driver sticks around and does an amazing job they become one of the cornerstones that keeps the coming moving forward. These are the drivers turning the big miles safely and taking care of the company's most important, most demanding, and best paying customers.

When you're a proven top tier driver and you turn big miles safely and consistently don't you think you deserve one of the nicest trucks? Of course! The top salary? Of course! Access to their best freight? Naturally! A special favor once in a while? Absolutely! I mean, how could they say no, right? On what grounds? If you've proven you're one of the best in every way then you deserve to be treated the best in every way. You're a rare find and they know it. If they lose you they know you'll take your fantastic skills to one of their competitors and their competitor will laugh their *sses off all the way to the bank. So they're simply not going to let that happen if they can help it.

You don't have to buy or lease a truck to have your way. You can earn it as a company driver and forget about all of the headaches, risks, and extra work that comes with owning a business. Just enjoy driving someone else's fancy truck hauling the company's best freight and getting treated well by your company.

When you're a company driver and your truck breaks down the company pays for a hotel room and kicks in a little layover pay. You get a mini paid vacation! Woo hoo!

dancing-dog.gif

But if you own or lease the truck and it breaks down......oh man......you get what feels like an expensive prison term with a minor bout of depression.

sorry.gif

I must say I do feel special to my FM. The first couple months I was terrified getting routed through a terminal. Always thought I was in trouble for something. I recently told my FM this and he just laughed and was like Nnnnnoooooo. ;)

Let him have the headaches. I just do my job and tell him what I need. Like it better that way hahah

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

DAC:

Drive-A-Check Report

A truck drivers DAC report will contain detailed information about their job history of the last 10 years as a CDL driver (as required by the DOT).

It may also contain your criminal history, drug test results, DOT infractions and accident history. The program is strictly voluntary from a company standpoint, but most of the medium-to-large carriers will participate.

Most trucking companies use DAC reports as part of their hiring and background check process. It is extremely important that drivers verify that the information contained in it is correct, and have it fixed if it's not.

Sambo's Comment
member avatar

I hear ya OS. As far as newer trucks, yeah knight does keep their Fleet up pretty well, although, I am driving probably one of the oldest trucks in the fleet lo . Has IFTA stickers on going back to 2012, and has almost 460k miles on it, but, it's in great shape and runs really well, so it's all good.

I've found, however, that your advice about getting with the shippers to try to drop off loads early apparently doesn't work for reefer drivers. If it's not a drop, then there is an appointment time, and when I asked my trainer about calling the consignee to arrive early, I was basically told that most of them either have certain times they receive, or they just generally stick to the appointment times. To be honest, I've not tried yet, as I'm not sure if calling through receiver directly will make my dm mad, since I'd be technically going over his head.

For example, the load I'm on now doesn't deliver until 9am on 9/2, yet I'm only about 8 hours away. I could have this load there by 4pm on 9/1, but, since I'm under the impression that I can't jump the appt time, I'll just drive the last bit when I wake up and park near the receiver until the appt time.

I'm assuming it works differently for flatbed drivers? They have a bit more flexibility?

Consignee:

The customer the freight is being delivered to. Also referred to as "the receiver". The shipper is the customer that is shipping the goods, the consignee is the customer receiving the goods.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Reefer:

A refrigerated trailer.

JakeBreak's Comment
member avatar

I've found, however, that your advice about getting with the shippers to try to drop off loads early apparently doesn't work for reefer drivers. If it's not a drop, then there is an appointment time, and when I asked my trainer about calling the consignee to arrive early, I was basically told that most of them either have certain times they receive, or they just generally stick to the appointment times. To be honest, I've not tried yet, as I'm not sure if calling through receiver directly will make my dm mad, since I'd be technically going over his head.

For example, the load I'm on now doesn't deliver until 9am on 9/2, yet I'm only about 8 hours away. I could have this load there by 4pm on 9/1, but, since I'm under the impression that I can't jump the appt time, I'll just drive the last bit when I wake up and park near the receiver until the appt time.

I'm assuming it works differently for flatbed drivers? They have a bit more flexibility?

It does still work for reefer drivers. You just have to learn the customers a little better. Like the place I'm at now opens at 0600 my appt isn't until 0800. But since I was here before I know they unload on a first come first serve basis so I'll be unloaded before my appt time. Now I don't know the next shipper so I might end up sitting for a bit waiting to get loaded but it's a chance I'm willing to take.

Consignee:

The customer the freight is being delivered to. Also referred to as "the receiver". The shipper is the customer that is shipping the goods, the consignee is the customer receiving the goods.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Reefer:

A refrigerated trailer.

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