How Do You Feel About Driver Facing Cameras?

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Tractor Man's Comment
member avatar

Rick, I love the Meme in the last post. Typical Public School Indoctrinated Millennial attitude. LOL!!

OK I'm going back to my safe space to play with my coloring books and play-dough.

smile.gif

Errol V.'s Comment
member avatar

FBob, yes, I read all your arguments about privacy. You are slicing things as thin as in second Amendment discussions.

When you are on duty, doing the assigned tasks, you have no privacy with respect to your employer. They have every right to use cameras or human observers to make sure you are operating the truck in a safe manner.

On the other hand, in your off duty time, your company has no interest in just what you do. When Swift rolled out the cameras, they always explained the privacy issue, and told us we could cover/ block the driver-side camera. Still, many drivers were nervous with the mini-HAL 9000 watching them.
220px-HAL9000.svg.png

Obviously most companies that roll with driver cams have gone over this with their lawyers, who are more than, and get paid better than any lawyers you can rustle up.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Farmerbob1's Comment
member avatar

double-quotes-start.png

However, even when I waive my privacy rights, it does not change the fact that my privacy can be and is violated. If, in my personal opinion, I am being required by my company to waive too much of my personal privacy, then I can act to address my loss of privacy. You have absolutely no say in this matter.

At this point in time, driver-facing cameras have insufficient benefits (for drivers) for me to consider them worth the invasion of privacy that they represent for me. This may change in time as camera technology improves, but it is my opinion, at this time. You have absolutely no say in this matter.

double-quotes-end.png

I'm hearing you here FB. And the board has gone "round & round" on this topic a number of times (kinda why I stayed off this one).

But what it comes down to - is that YOU are not the one who gets to decide if the camera has a benefit to THE COMPANY. The camera is NOT THERE TO BENEFIT THE DRIVER. If the driver happens to derive some benefit (by a CYA in the event of an accident), great - but that's not why it's there.

It's a statistical fact of human behavior - that we BEHAVE BETTER when we think/know we are being observed.

You only get to decide, if you are willing to "waive" that privacy right, in order to obtain/remain employed by a company that chooses to use them FOR WHATEVER REASON THEY CHOOSE.

What you THINK about it - is actually the way you FEEL about it. Which is the crux of the topic (and that's just fine) - but not the REALITY OF THE SITUATION (which is also just fine).

QHSBnDz.jpg

What it comes down to for me - is I have to weigh if ALL THE OTHER BENEFITS of working for an employer that uses these camera's - outweighs the fact they might see me picking my nose (or eating an oreo) while I am OPERATING THEIR EQUIPMENT.

Rick

My first trainer's truck had a camera in it, because he was part of the pilot program for Stevens cameras. My second recovery truck, which I kept for a week while my first truck was in a shop, had a camera in it. Both camera units recorded the driver.

Now that I have been a Stevens employee for a year, with a good driving record, I have options. One of those options is to choose companies to work for based on the pros and cons of what they offer and require of drivers.

As one might imagine, based on my historical discussions about how much I can't stand the idea of being a trainer because that would mean living in a 10x10 box with a trainee, and my historical comments about how hard training was for me because of being cramped with another person for so long, I am very sensitive about my personal space and privacy.

If I have an option between a company with driver-facing cameras, and a company without driver-facing cameras, the difference in benefits would have to be very large for me to choose the company utilizing driver-facing cameras.

I drive no differently with a camera than I do without. I've done both. I didn't cover the cameras in my trainer's truck, because it wasn't my truck. I did cover the camera in the second recovery truck, but only when not driving. If a camera was put in my truck permanently, I would cover it with tape at all times, and start looking for a job with another company.

My opinion may change over time, if cameras start providing useful, active, real-time functions for the driver. I certainly wouldn't mind an eye-closure/head-loll sleeping detector, though getting tired behind the wheel is something I've experienced very rarely. Make that a feature of a driver-facing camera, and I will accept it, because it might just save my life, and my life is worth losing some privacy.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Farmerbob1's Comment
member avatar

FBob, yes, I read all your arguments about privacy. You are slicing things as thin as in second Amendment discussions.

When you are on duty, doing the assigned tasks, you have no privacy with respect to your employer. They have every right to use cameras or human observers to make sure you are operating the truck in a safe manner.

On the other hand, in your off duty time, your company has no interest in just what you do. When Swift rolled out the cameras, they always explained the privacy issue, and told us we could cover/ block the driver-side camera. Still, many drivers were nervous with the mini-HAL 9000 watching them.
220px-HAL9000.svg.png

Obviously most companies that roll with driver cams have gone over this with their lawyers, who are more than, and get paid better than any lawyers you can rustle up.

You read it, perhaps, but you do not seem to fully understand it.

The rights of the government and/or a company, via law or waiver, can legally require me to accept a violation of my privacy.

Making a violation of my privacy legal doesn't stop it from being a violation of my privacy.

You appear to be confusing legal privacy rights with individual privacy desires. They are not the same.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar
You appear to be confusing legal privacy rights with individual privacy desires. They are not the same.

No, you're the one confusing the two! Rick understands it perfectly.

You feel you have this God given right to privacy even when you are being paid to drive a company vehicle and the company is liable for any damage you do to yourself, their vehicle, or anyone else on the highway. You have every right to feel that way, but you have no reasonable nor legal right to expect privacy under those conditions.

Rick's photo was perfect - you're confusing your feelings with some sort of God given or legal rights.

And tell me this.......when you go with your family on vacation to an amusement park they're loaded with cameras covering every inch of the place. Why don't you mind being on camera during your private time with your family on vacation in an amusement park you're paying to visit but you refuse to be on camera in your place of work when being paid by your employer to drive their equipment? That is just completely illogical to me.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
G-Town's Comment
member avatar

FarmerBob pointed out the OP wants to know how we feel about the camera. I agree, he is right...the OP did ask that. This is not a conversation or debate for me...not interested in having one or trying to change anyone's mind on this. This is how I feel.

I feel as though there is far too much emphasis placed on compromised privacy, perceived or otherwise at the expense of safety; my life and the lives of everyone else around our trucks. The camera is there for safety. Period. I know this for a fact. I will not buy-into any other theory or covert reason. All BS. Safety...

The privacy of the driver (especially a novice) does not trump the importance of my life or anyone else's. I have lived with this technology for over four years...never once have I felt as though my privacy was violated or compromised. A good driver, operating and behaving within the law should have nothing to hide, especially while they are driving. In fact I want Swift to know with proof I am performing safely. It has made me a habitual safety conscience driver. Besides I have far more cameras on me while I back into a Walmart dock than in the truck, and they are a real-time feed, not event triggered. I so much as drop a gum wrapper on the ground and my DM gets a call.

Put in a different way, consider this:

Without this technology there is no way of proactively evaluating the safe and prudent operation of a driver. Thus, many times the first piece of tangible evidence of unsafe operation is what?

A citation or worse, a preventable crash that on average costs our employers $180,000 per incident, if there are no injuries.

With the camera there is finally a foolproof method of objective evaluation of how a driver is operating. It is also the best way to rid ourselves of chronically unsafe drivers and an opportunity to adjust bad habits and behaviors before it becomes too late with a new driver.

My feelings on this are strong, I inderstand how the camera functions, been part of several beta test shakedowns/reviews and have seen firsthand how they have reduced accidents at my DC. This converts to better performance and safety scores for our team and hitting the SLA Walmart has in place. Our customer is far happier now than they were before the camera systems were fully implemented because of less delivery failures, property damage and equipment loss. In affect a continuous improvement process of driver performance that's tracked and graphed. This absolutely does trickle down to the driver in a positive way if for no other reason we keep the account.

Put the emotional aspect aside, these are the best, arguably only proactive teaching tools we have.

I respect the privacy concern. However it doesn't concern me personally because I know exactly how the camera functions, the event review process and the reletively low percentage of time a triggered upload occurs, on average 1% during an 11 hour turn.

Compromised privacy pales in comparison to the importance of safety and teaching a new drivers safe habits early on when they are best apt to adjust. For the accidents this can prevent and the elimination of chronically bad drivers, for me privacy is a mere footnote and not worth the angst it has caused on this thread and previous ones.

For anyone you have a choice...you have the freedom and right to choose a camera free company or choose a company that puts safety ahead of everything else. That's how I feel about it.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Farmerbob1's Comment
member avatar

FarmerBob pointed out the OP wants to know how we feel about the camera. I agree, he is right...the OP did ask that. This is not a conversation or debate for me...not interested in having one or trying to change anyone's mind on this. This is how I feel.

I feel as though there is far too much emphasis placed on compromised privacy, perceived or otherwise at the expense of safety; my life and the lives of everyone else around our trucks. The camera is there for safety. Period. I know this for a fact. I will not buy-into any other theory or covert reason. All BS. Safety...

The privacy of the driver (especially a novice) does not trump the importance of my life or anyone else's. I have lived with this technology for over four years...never once have I felt as though my privacy was violated or compromised. A good driver, operating and behaving within the law should have nothing to hide, especially while they are driving. In fact I want Swift to know with proof I am performing safely. It has made me a habitual safety conscience driver. Besides I have far more cameras on me while I back into a Walmart dock than in the truck, and they are a real-time feed, not event triggered. I so much as drop a gum wrapper on the ground and my DM gets a call.

Put in a different way, consider this:

Without this technology there is no way of proactively evaluating the safe and prudent operation of a driver. Thus, many times the first piece of tangible evidence of unsafe operation is what?

A citation or worse, a preventable crash that on average costs our employers $180,000 per incident, if there are no injuries.

With the camera there is finally a foolproof method of objective evaluation of how a driver is operating. It is also the best way to rid ourselves of chronically unsafe drivers and an opportunity to adjust bad habits and behaviors before it becomes too late with a new driver.

My feelings on this are strong, I inderstand how the camera functions, been part of several beta test shakedowns/reviews and have seen firsthand how they have reduced accidents at my DC. This converts to better performance and safety scores for our team and hitting the SLA Walmart has in place. Our customer is far happier now than they were before the camera systems were fully implemented because of less delivery failures, property damage and equipment loss. In affect a continuous improvement process of driver performance that's tracked and graphed. This absolutely does trickle down to the driver in a positive way if for no other reason we keep the account.

Put the emotional aspect aside, these are the best, arguably only proactive teaching tools we have.

I respect the privacy concern. However it doesn't concern me personally because I know exactly how the camera functions, the event review process and the reletively low percentage of time a triggered upload occurs, on average 1% during an 11 hour turn.

Compromised privacy pales in comparison to the importance of safety and teaching a new drivers safe habits early on when they are best apt to adjust. For the accidents this can prevent and the elimination of chronically bad drivers, for me privacy is a mere footnote and not worth the angst it has caused on this thread and previous ones.

For anyone you have a choice...you have the freedom and right to choose a camera free company or choose a company that puts safety ahead of everything else. That's how I feel about it.

Good response that I can respect, G-Town. My problem with the safety enhancement concept is that a driver has already been through training, and there are other sensors on the truck that would help identify potential backsliding into unsafe driving.

If a driver has multiple hard braking incidents in a month, or is regularly setting off the proximity alarm or lane position sensors, put a driver-facing camera in the cab. That would be the safety department saying "fix yourself." If the driver is rarely setting off alarms, not generating complaints, not getting in accidents or incidents, then they are doing their job right, and the company should leave them alone, provided they continue being a non-problem.

Putting a driver-facing camera in every truck doesn't benefit every driver. Companies have the right to require drivers that wish to remain employed by them to agree to camera monitoring, but they may lose drivers like me who do not care to live the 'Truman Show' for Big Brother.

If it becomes law, and every truck is required to have driver-facing cameras, well, then I'm in the same situation that I'm in when I go to Disney World or Best Buy. I simply won't have a choice if I want to continue driving a truck. But if I do have a choice that allows me to keep driving without costing me too much income or benefits, I'll chose the option that preserves more of my privacy.

Your final line is a bit heavy-handed. I prefer to state it differently, which is, I admit, a bit heavy-handed the other way. "You have the freedom and right to choose a camera-free company, or chose a company that will sacrifice every driver's privacy because of a few bad actors."

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Bob...I meant what I said. This is not a debate for me or an argument to win or lose.

I stand by what I wrote as I am sure you are steadfast in your beliefs on this as well. I fulfilled the request of the OP, as have you. There is plenty of information for him to either make his own decision or run like hell. I am moving on...I hope you can do the same.

My advice to you as a peer, brother driver, don't get into a ****ing contest with the owner of this site. You have a lot to offer new drivers here, keep pushing and we might all lose. Okay...chill. Peace.

I am tired...good night.

Errol V.'s Comment
member avatar

FarmerBob, you have said the same thing at least three times, and what you have contributed is your opinion that driver cams are not helpful. This is not a fact, it is your opinion.

So if you insist on having the last word, go ahead and post. Everybody else, let's just drop it and move on.

Chris Y.'s Comment
member avatar

I work for US Express. They have started a pilot program for the in cab camaras. They record both the traffic and driver. The way they work is that when a braking incident occurs, with a specific G-Force, they start recording. This means they arent recording 100% of the time. You can manually start recording if you see a potentially dangerous situation (ie:Dangerous Driver). After it finishes recording , its then sent to a 3rd party to review and then its determined if it needs to be sent to the Saftey Dept. It was stressed to us that at no time when the wheels aren't rolling the camara won't be recording or on. I personally don't have a problem with the policy. I'm not perfect but operating my Pete safely for my family and yours is my top priority/responsibility. So I don't feel I have a lot to worry about being filmed.

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