Log Book Quiz

Topic 30932 | Page 3

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PackRat's Comment
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Now if I'm not mistaken your method is a DOT violation. You cannot run until you run out if time THEN switch to PC and continue to a stopping place.

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Here is a more detailed scenario. My delivery is on the next day, about 500 miles to drive. I arrive at a planned rest area with 30 minutes left on the clock. It is 2100 and there are no spots to park. The next closest rest area is 90 miles. There is also a truck stop in 20 miles, so I go there. It is 2120, the same thing, no spots. Now I have 10 minutes left. I start PC and drive for an hour to the next rest area, where I park. Is it a violation?

Yes, definitely a violation. What to do? Stay on the Drive status, even when it reads, "Violation". Once you are parked legally, go into edit and annotate why you were over on your hours, either the 11 or 14. Your 10 hour rest break begins once you are parked. As soon as possible, call your logs department and explain the violation. Try not to make a habit of this, though. If it's occurring more than once a month, you are doing something wrong.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Turtle's Comment
member avatar

Thanks for following up on that and clearing it up, Robert. It's always fun to bring up pop quizzes like this. I always enjoy the conversation and occasional debates these quizzes spark.

Failure to log an activity as on duty is most definitely an area where LEO can ding a driver, but they would have to prove the driver did in fact perform those activities. At the very least they could hem a driver up, scrutinize his logs and generally be a PITA. Or they could easily shut them down if they don't believe his story. The safe and legal way to handle that scenario is to utilize the 14 pause or split, as Old School brought up. But that's a whole 'nuther lesson for another day.

For the purposes of keeping the quiz simple, I didn't bring up the on duty part. That's an area where drivers will always try to skirt around the edges of what is legal, and Leo will always try to ding him for it. Prey and predator.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Grumpy Old Man's Comment
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Yes. You can only use PC when required to leave a shipper/receiver, AND you are completely out of hours.

If you have any time on your clock, you cannot use PC. So you either sit there till your clock expires, or leave and violate and notate your logs you were required to leave shipper without time to reach safe parking.

In both cases you have to go to the closest parking, even if it is the opposite direction your load needs to go.

double-quotes-start.png

Now if I'm not mistaken your method is a DOT violation. You cannot run until you run out if time THEN switch to PC and continue to a stopping place.

double-quotes-end.png

Here is a more detailed scenario. My delivery is on the next day, about 500 miles to drive. I arrive at a planned rest area with 30 minutes left on the clock. It is 2100 and there are no spots to park. The next closest rest area is 90 miles. There is also a truck stop in 20 miles, so I go there. It is 2120, the same thing, no spots. Now I have 10 minutes left. I start PC and drive for an hour to the next rest area, where I park. Is it a violation?

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Grumpy Old Man's Comment
member avatar

I don’t see how this is not a violation.

PC is only for when you run out of time, and the rule specifically mentions not using it to return to the terminal.

I use PC probably three to five days a week in Cheyenne. I'm usually going bobtail from the DC to the terminal , from the DC to the closest WM store for shopping, or returning from either to the DC. My 10 hour break is calculated from the time I complete my drop upon returning to the DC from over the road.

I notate my log as, " Drive from the DC to the terminal" before I begin. Once there, I again notate on my log notes, "Parked at the terminal", and I put myself back to an Off Duty status. Once I depart, I log these same notations in reverse order. I have never been required by the company to restart a 10 hour break if I utilize a PC move during these time periods.

Each company will have their own policies, and these may differ. A company can add stipulations, but cannot change an FMCSA ruling or policy without an exemption.

Bobtail:

"Bobtailing" means you are driving a tractor without a trailer attached.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

Over The Road:

Over The Road

OTR driving normally means you'll be hauling freight to various customers throughout your company's hauling region. It often entails being gone from home for two to three weeks at a time.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
PackRat's Comment
member avatar

PC is Personal use, not related to company specific business or activities.

I always start and end at the same location (the Walmart DC), and I'm never under a load or dispatched.

This is what Personal Conveyance was created for.

Grumpy Old Man's Comment
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May a driver, who drops his or her last load at a receiver’s facility use personal conveyance to return to their normal work location (i.e. home or terminal?)

No. Returning home or to the terminal from a dispatched trip is a continuation of the trip, and therefore cannot be considered personal conveyance.

It may simply be company policy that I can only use it after running out of time at a shipper/ receiver, but the above rule seems pretty clear about going from a customer home or to the terminal.

PC is Personal use, not related to company specific business or activities.

I always start and end at the same location (the Walmart DC), and I'm never under a load or dispatched.

This is what Personal Conveyance was created for.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

PackRat's Comment
member avatar

You're right.

I showed examples of what I have been doing since starting this dedicated account. Management here, then both the operations and compliance departments in Lincoln instructed the drivers to do it this way.

So far, it's worked out for us.

Good night.

PackRat's Comment
member avatar

I will not post any future responses to compliance, laws, or enforcement questions because invariably, someone has to be "more correct" than my answers. Extreme response? Oh well. At nearly 66, I don't need to use up the remaining time on Earth unnecessarily.

If I ever receive ANY violation citation or warning dealing with equipment, logs, or HOS , I'll post it ASAP to show my error.

SAP:

Substance Abuse Professional

The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Turtle's Comment
member avatar
May a driver, who drops his or her last load at a receiver’s facility use personal conveyance to return to their normal work location (i.e. home or terminal?)

Grumpy,

In Packrat's case, the DC is his normal work location, not the terminal. He's legally allowed to PC from the DC to the terminal and back for a shower, food, or anything else non-work related.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

Grumpy Old Man's Comment
member avatar

I wasn’t going to respond to this, but since you clearly felt the need to point that toward me:

You are a moderator. This site is supposedly to teach younger drivers.

The example you gave is clearly not legal. The fact that your company tells you to log it that way does not change that fact. Even never being cited doesn’t change that fact. You could get away with something trivial like that for years until you meet an officer in a bad mood, or strictly enforcing rules.

I don’t think it is responsible to say that something specifically noted as not legal as being proper to drivers who look to more experienced drivers here for guidance.

I just talked to a guy the other night whose company told him to log 90 miles under load as PC to save his clock. Also to unplug it after running out of hours to get back to their terminal. That certainly didn’t make it legal.

As you said, I’m done responding as well. Have a nice day.

I will not post any future responses to compliance, laws, or enforcement questions because invariably, someone has to be "more correct" than my answers. Extreme response? Oh well. At nearly 66, I don't need to use up the remaining time on Earth unnecessarily.

If I ever receive ANY violation citation or warning dealing with equipment, logs, or HOS , I'll post it ASAP to show my error.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

SAP:

Substance Abuse Professional

The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
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