Log Book Quiz

Topic 30932 | Page 1

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Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
member avatar

Let me start this by asking the experienced drivers to hold off on answering to give our newer drivers a shot at it.

Scenario : You arrive at a shipper , get pulled up to your door and put yourself Off Duty at 1800 (6pm). At 2030, they finish loading but your 14 hour clock has expired so you PC for 30 minutes to find parking.

What time will you get hours back, what time can you start driving and why ?

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

Mark O. ~MiNi-Me~'s Comment
member avatar

Let me start this by asking the experienced drivers to hold off on answering to give our newer drivers a shot at it.

Scenario : You arrive at a shipper , get pulled up to your door and put yourself Off Duty at 1800 (6pm). At 2030, they finish loading but your 14 hour clock has expired so you PC for 30 minutes to find parking.

What time will you get hours back, what time can you start driving and why ?

So new that I haven't even started school yet (next Monday the 25th) and just started using TT log book study tool yesterday. If I understand correctly you would start your 14 hour clock the following morning at 0630.

Thinking the PC (personal use) would not effect the 10 hour rest period.

Still learning so please correct if I am wrong.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
member avatar

You’re on the right track and I apologize if the example is a little confusing but it’s a bit of a trick question. Going off duty at 1800 will allow your 10 hour break to be over at 0400. Most people will see that and think, ok, I can drive now. The catch is the use of PC. You’ll still show as off duty as to not violate the HOS and moving the vehicle in an allowed fashion. However, your 10 hour break doesn’t start until the PC move is complete which would have been at 2100 meaning you can’t legally start driving until 0700.

I brought this up because I was recently speaking with a family member who works in law enforcement and this has been a common mistake which they’ve been citing and shutting down drivers for much more often.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Chief Brody's Comment
member avatar

I don't agree with regard to the 10 hour break not beginning after use of PC.

If LEO cited me for a log violation I would challenge it and use the FMCSA guidance below as support:

FMCSA PC during 10 hour break

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Turtle's Comment
member avatar

I'm with Chief Brody on this. PC is off-duty, and should be included as part of a 10 or 34 hour break. It's no different than if you decided to leave the truck stop and PC to a restaurant and back. Nothing says you have to do a 10 following the PC.

I used PC in this fashion many many times during my time as a driver and trainer at Prime, and underwent multiple log audits with nary a hint of a violation.

I'm curious to know on what grounds your family member is handing out violations, Robert? Are they considering it a continuance of a trip?

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Sid V.'s Comment
member avatar

This is the exact reason they made PC time available for drivers for when we run out of time at the docks. When they went to ELD's there were trucks that refused to leave the docks because they were out of time and in doing so would be breaking the law. There were many police called to places i'm sure, because trucks wouldn't move.

PC time is recorded off duty so in your example so in your example you can start driving at 4am.

You can tell your family member that if they want to write citations we can always go back to the old way.

Old School's Comment
member avatar

I have to agree with the majority here. PC is off duty time. I rarely use it, but the few times I have it has never shown up as a violation on my ELD. Anytime we try to fudge things a little it will show up as a violation if it is not done correctly.

The way you presented the scenario is interesting though. You said the driver was getting loaded. So technically he is advancing his load.

I am starting to scratch my head now. I think if he were getting unloaded his PC move would not count against his ten hour break. The fact that he was getting loaded makes it more questionable I suppose.

I realize we are speculating here and don't have all the information we need, but it also seems that he could have extended his fourteen hour clock with the two and a half hours of off duty time in the dock. That would make his PC move unnecessary.

Turtle's Comment
member avatar
So technically he is advancing his load.

Not necessarily, if the "closest reasonable" place to park is in the opposite direction.

As Old School mentions, we're only speculating here with limited information.

but it also seems that he could have extended his fourteen hour clock with the two and a half hours of off duty time in the dock.

Yup, I saw that too. The way the scenario and question was worded left a couple of possible correct answers available.

Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
member avatar

It’s my cousins oldest son, 20 year Indiana state trooper and DOT certified. Minnesota is also citing for it and we had a driver get tagged in Wisconsin for it. I haven’t heard if they’re fighting it or not but I’ll be curious to find out. In regards to Old Schools comment. Whether loaded or unloaded, if you’re out of hours and the customer does not allow parking, you’re allowed to use it to proceed to the closest available parking location, regardless if it forwards the load.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Robert B. (The Dragon) ye's Comment
member avatar

The way it was explained to me is that they’re looking for it on the 10 hour break and not a 34 and looking at whether or not the driver was out of hours when it was used. Whether or not what they’re doing is right and will stand up in court is an answer I haven’t heard but the reason for the enforcement was to ensure a full 10 hour break.

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