When When Not To Log

I drive quad axle dump truck and am not required by my boss or the dot to keep log book because i stay in state and within 200 miles of my shop.I started a job driving motor coach part time they said i need to log in everyday and put on duty but not driving but I drive dump everyday 50 hrs a week can some clear this up for me last thing I want is a fine or loss of cdl Thanks Kevin

If your dump job is following the "short haul" rules (395.1(e)(1)) AND keeping track as follows:

(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day; (B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day; (C) The time the driver is released from duty each day

then you should be fine doing as the motor coach job says.

If your dump job is following the "short haul" rules (395.1(e)(1)) AND keeping track as follows:

(A) The time the driver reports for duty each day; (B) The total number of hours the driver is on duty each day; (C) The time the driver is released from duty each day

then you should be fine doing as the motor coach job says.

Hmmmm - maybe, maybe not.

And I'm not sure if your statement is in regards to CANADA HOS or US.

Here's the rub. ANY JOB - even if it's NOT DRIVING - is considered "On Duty" for the purposes of FMCSA HOS Regulations.

The object here, is to make sure you are RESTED, before you get behind the wheel of a CMV.

Even though you are not required to log FOR THE DUMP TRUCK - if you are required to log for the MOTOR COACH, then "technically" - since you are driving the dump truck as a CMV/Commercial Use - that time may end up having to be counted as ON DUTY DRIVING.

EITHER WAY - even if NOT ON DUTY DRIVING - it will be counted as ON DUTY, and require 8 HOURS OFF DUTY before driving.

In A Nutshell:

FMCSA HOS for Passenger Carrying Motor Carriers

You are going to want to ask your Log/Safety guy at the MOTOR COACH COMPANY, how they want you to deal with this.

BE AWARE - if you get in an accident - and you are found to have been ON DUTY at another job (even another non-driving job) and have not complied with the 8 hour rest interval - you will be "up feces river, with no rowing implement".

And honestly - if you are driving Dump 50 hours a week - I'm just not seeing HOW you are going to get the required rest to legally operate a motor coach.

Rick

Hmmmm - maybe, maybe not.

And I'm not sure if your statement is in regards to CANADA HOS or US.

Here's the rub. ANY JOB - even if it's NOT DRIVING - is considered "On Duty" for the purposes of FMCSA HOS Regulations.

The object here, is to make sure you are RESTED, before you get behind the wheel of a CMV.

Even though you are not required to log FOR THE DUMP TRUCK - if you are required to log for the MOTOR COACH, then "technically" - since you are driving the dump truck as a CMV/Commercial Use - that time may end up having to be counted as ON DUTY DRIVING.

EITHER WAY - even if NOT ON DUTY DRIVING - it will be counted as ON DUTY, and require 8 HOURS OFF DUTY before driving.

In A Nutshell:

FMCSA HOS for Passenger Carrying Motor Carriers

You are going to want to ask your Log/Safety guy at the MOTOR COACH COMPANY, how they want you to deal with this.

BE AWARE - if you get in an accident - and you are found to have been ON DUTY at another job (even another non-driving job) and have not complied with the 8 hour rest interval - you will be "up feces river, with no rowing implement".

And honestly - if you are driving Dump 50 hours a week - I'm just not seeing HOW you are going to get the required rest to legally operate a motor coach.

Rick

Unless I am reading the op wrong, and I don't believe I am, there is no "maybe" about it.

Why would I be responding to a question about US HOS with information about Canadian HOS? Especially when I referenced applicable FMCSA regulations?

The discussion of whether the OP is "rested enough" is irrelevant. He didn't ask for your, my, or anybody else's opinion. He was asking a logging qustion. I will leave it up to the professional driver to determine for themselves whether, or when, they should be driving. However, as an aside, it appears, according to the op, that he is not exceeding the HOS regulations.

According to the OP, he has two jobs; Job1 is driving a dump truck 50 hours per week, Job 2 is driving a motor coach on a part-time basis. My understanding of the OP's question is that he is asking that when he is completing a log for Job 2, if only putting "on-duty" is sufficient for recording his time from Job 1. It is--as he is being told to do so by the motor coach company.

What he does not tell us is if Job 1 is even subject to FMCSA regulations, which it may not be if they are not involved in interstate commerce. If they are under FMCSA regulations, he is mistaken about the limits regarding the "short haul" exemption for logging; crossing state lines is irrelevant and the distance limit is a 100 air (nautical) mile radius, regardless of the number of road miles travelled.

Assuming that Job 1 is both subject to FMCSA regulations and the drivers are exempt from carrying logs per 395.1(e)(1) (as previously posted), then the duty status of "driving" does not need to be recorded (and most likely is not). The company is likely following said regulation and recording "total number of hours the driver is on duty each day." Therefore, the driver does not have a record of "driving" vs. "on-duty". They are still "logging", but they are exempt from having the driver carry and use a RODS. Therefore the driver does not have that breakdown available when completing logs for Job 2.

Whatever...

You made comments on other threads, about Canadian Regs - and you have a Canadian Flag as your avatar.

The point is - if you are working, even in a NON DRIVING OCCUPATION as employment separate from CDL driving - it is considered ON DUTY TIME, when you go to work for a CMV OCCUPATION as a second job.

The discussion of whether the OP is "rested enough" is irrelevant. He didn't ask for your, my, or anybody else's opinion. He was asking a logging qustion. I will leave it up to the professional driver to determine for themselves whether, or when, they should be driving. However, as an aside, it appears, according to the op, that he is not exceeding the HOS regulations.

Actually - it's TOTALLY RELEVANT. It IS ALL ABOUT BEING RESTED - especially if you are driving a CMV.

The OBJECT OF HOS is for drivers to get enough rest, to operate a CMV safely. NOT to deny us the ability to cover as many miles as we humanly can.

What he does not tell us is if Job 1 is even subject to FMCSA regulations, which it may not be if they are not involved in interstate commerce.

The fact that the dump truck job follows short haul non-logging exemption and doesn't require logging - doesn't mean that it is NOT A CMV under FMCSA regulations - just that it is taking the exemption from having to log. He is still in fact - OPERATING A CMV, that requires a CDL, while he's driving the dumper. Keep in mind that, if he exceeded the air mile limitation that exempts him from logging, had to log, and never left the state - he would STILL BE REGULATED by FMCSA HOS, even though he was not operating "in interstate commerce". The fact that he is not required to log under the regs, doesn't mean he isn't subject to them.

So even if he doesn't have to log the dump job as On Duty/Driving - but simply as ON DUTY - he is still required by HOS for the Motorcoach job - to have 8 hours OFF DUTY, prior to driving the bus.

Since he was somewhat vague, for his first post here after lurking for 2 years - my BEST ADVICE to him, would be to check with the motorcoach companies safety guy. They are the ones who are going to have to back him up - or throw him under the bus (pardon the pun) if there's an issue.

Everything just looks hunky-dory, and then, god forbid you have an accident and get HUNG OUT TO DRY (because it's the DRIVER that always gets SCREWED), because someone misinterpreted the regs, or just ignored them for the company's benefit.

Now - if he was driving the dumper from M-F, and the bus Sat/Sun - then he "might" be OK. Also keeping in mind that if he is required to log the dump as ON DUTY - he's going to be coming close to bumping his 70 hour clock for the motorcoach job - because he will still be subject to that clock for the previous 7 days.

If he's driving the dumper for 10 hours, then going and driving the bus that day - he will be in violation of HOS for the bus. Because he is required to log the dump for 10 hours that day, and essentially needs 8 hours off duty before he can log On Duty/Driving for the bus.

Rick

Whatever...

You made comments on other threads, about Canadian Regs - and you have a Canadian Flag as your avatar.

The point is - if you are working, even in a NON DRIVING OCCUPATION as employment separate from CDL driving - it is considered ON DUTY TIME, when you go to work for a CMV OCCUPATION as a second job.

Actually - it's TOTALLY RELEVANT. It IS ALL ABOUT BEING RESTED - especially if you are driving a CMV.

The OBJECT OF HOS is for drivers to get enough rest, to operate a CMV safely. NOT to deny us the ability to cover as many miles as we humanly can.

The fact that the dump truck job follows short haul non-logging exemption and doesn't require logging - doesn't mean that it is NOT A CMV under FMCSA regulations - just that it is taking the exemption from having to log. He is still in fact - OPERATING A CMV, that requires a CDL, while he's driving the dumper. Keep in mind that, if he exceeded the air mile limitation that exempts him from logging, had to log, and never left the state - he would STILL BE REGULATED by FMCSA HOS, even though he was not operating "in interstate commerce". The fact that he is not required to log under the regs, doesn't mean he isn't subject to them.

So even if he doesn't have to log the dump job as On Duty/Driving - but simply as ON DUTY - he is still required by HOS for the Motorcoach job - to have 8 hours OFF DUTY, prior to driving the bus.

Since he was somewhat vague, for his first post here after lurking for 2 years - my BEST ADVICE to him, would be to check with the motorcoach companies safety guy. They are the ones who are going to have to back him up - or throw him under the bus (pardon the pun) if there's an issue.

Everything just looks hunky-dory, and then, god forbid you have an accident and get HUNG OUT TO DRY (because it's the DRIVER that always gets SCREWED), because someone misinterpreted the regs, or just ignored them for the company's benefit.

Now - if he was driving the dumper from M-F, and the bus Sat/Sun - then he "might" be OK. Also keeping in mind that if he is required to log the dump as ON DUTY - he's going to be coming close to bumping his 70 hour clock for the motorcoach job - because he will still be subject to that clock for the previous 7 days.

If he's driving the dumper for 10 hours, then going and driving the bus that day - he will be in violation of HOS for the bus. Because he is required to log the dump for 10 hours that day, and essentially needs 8 hours off duty before he can log On Duty/Driving for the bus.

Rick

I'm not sure why, but you seem to feel the need to raise a lot of issues that are irrelevant to the question asked.

There was no question about whether or not the OP is driving a CMV at Job 1--of course he is.

He didn't ask whether or not he could also work a part time job driving a motor coach. Or whether he should, or whether someone sitting behind a keyboard thinks it is okay. I will also trust the professional driver to know that he has to abide by the HOS regulations regarding rest periods... especially seeing as he didn't ask about that issue either.

Neither the OP nor I suggested he is not subject to recording his HOS in some manner. In fact, both of us specifically stated that he is required to do so. His question, seemingly a basic one really, appears to simply be how he records the hours and duty cycles worked at Job 1 when he is preparing logs for Job 2.

It is possible, however, that the OP is, in fact, not subject to FMCSA HOS regulations at Job 1, or possibly even Job 2. He posted that he never crosses state lines. If that is true and if it is also true that the carrier is not engaged in interstate commerce , then the FMCSA regulations do not apply. Unfortunately, he does not give enough information to make that determination.

I'm not sure why, but you seem to feel the need to raise a lot of issues that are irrelevant to the question asked.

There was no question about whether or not the OP is driving a CMV at Job 1--of course he is.

He didn't ask whether or not he could also work a part time job driving a motor coach. Or whether he should, or whether someone sitting behind a keyboard thinks it is okay. I will also trust the professional driver to know that he has to abide by the HOS regulations regarding rest periods... especially seeing as he didn't ask about that issue either.

Neither the OP nor I suggested he is not subject to recording his HOS in some manner. In fact, both of us specifically stated that he is required to do so. His question, seemingly a basic one really, appears to simply be how he records the hours and duty cycles worked at Job 1 when he is preparing logs for Job 2.

It is possible, however, that the OP is, in fact, not subject to FMCSA HOS regulations at Job 1, or possibly even Job 2. He posted that he never crosses state lines. If that is true and if it is also true that the carrier is not engaged in interstate commerce , then the FMCSA regulations do not apply. Unfortunately, he does not give enough information to make that determination.

Since YOU are not the OP - the OP's question was kind of vague - and HE hasn't returned to fill in any blanks - the matter is subject to interpretation.

Since YOU are a relative newcomer here - and haven't anywhere stated what your experience or credentials are (despite your obvious research skills), I gotta take your responses with a grain of salt - though I don't see why you need to take a contentious tone with me.

We try to look at THE BIG PICTURE HERE - which is why my response "raised issues" that are germane to the larger issue of THE POTENTIAL CONCERNS/CONFLICTS raised by the OP. Anyone can copy and paste regs.

It is possible, however, that the OP is, in fact, not subject to FMCSA HOS regulations at Job 1, or possibly even Job 2. He posted that he never crosses state lines. If that is true and if it is also true that the carrier is not engaged in interstate commerce, then the FMCSA regulations do not apply. Unfortunately, he does not give enough information to make that determination

Not sure this is even debatable. DOT regs are going to apply when operating a CMV. Just because you don't operate across state lines, doesn't mean you aren't subject to 49 CFR, even if you are operating in an "exempt status" as far as one particular employer goes. Likewise would apply, even if every CMV he was driving were sporting local/intrastate tags, and not an apportioned one. You seem to be harping on this - as if somehow, he's in some "alternate universe" where the rules that apply to everyone else operating a CMV don't apply to him.

...they said i need to log in everyday and put on duty but not driving but I drive dump everyday 50 hrs a week can some clear this up for me last thing I want is a fine or loss of cdl.

He asked a question - you stated a reg, but no explanation. I expounded on potential concerns - advised on WHY things were done that way (since this is a site for NEW DRIVERS - explanations help folks understand WHY the industry works the way it does).

Then it turns into an argument with YOU - an unknown newcomer, whose continuing purpose on this thread seems to be to question MY MOTIVATIONS and troll me.

Troll away - cause I'm done here.

Kevin (if you actually come back) - verify with your Safety/Logs dept at the motorcoach company - regarding required rest periods before driving the motorcoach - and whether the Dump needs to be logged as ON Duty Driving - since it is a CMV.

Rick

Not4hire, we appreciate the effort but you're focusing your time and energy attacking Rick instead of focusing on the facts.

I'm not sure why, but you seem to feel the need to raise a lot of issues that are irrelevant to the question asked.

He's being thorough and never brings up irrelevant points. Everything he talks about is directly related to this situation. Discuss the facts of the situation, not your opinion of Rick and his style.

He's being thorough and never brings up irrelevant points. Everything he talks about is directly related to this situation. Discuss the facts of the situation, not your opinion of Rick and his style.

^^^^^ Please. There is another Forum down the road that may suit your style a bit more.

The OP must prepare a Time Worked Statement for job 2 (bus), recording and accounting for the previous 7 days. DOT form 395.8 J 2. The Time Worked Statement is used for either a first time driver (first time in new job) or for a driver who works intermittently.

If the OP drives the bus for job 2 every Saturday, (for example) he will be required to record his on-duty work on the Time Worked Statement for job 1 regardless of whether driving a CMV for job 1 or not. His bus company should have the Time a Worked Statement form available to him, and they should be able to explain how it is filled out. The OP must carry the original with him, job 2 company gets a copy. This is a legal document/record signed by a company representative of job 2 and the OP. It becomes part of his logs for Job 2, the bus.

As far as adequate rest,...assuming the OP is a professional, he understands the importance of that and the relevance. We all do; what's obvious to us though may not be obvious to others reading these threads. We have a responsibility for the bigger picture here, which Rick clearly understands and applies to his answers.

Considering the main objective of this forum is to offer factual information to everyone; looking beyond the obvious, and attempt to offer newbie's all the facts associated with a post, (not just the OP), Rick's point is highly relevant and acceptable.