Alley Dock In Action

Hire a midget that works for new platform shoes, and have them stand their as your reference point. Problem solved!

And you got it right there: with red cones/ref points in the school yard, it's one thing. When the ref points are gone....then what?? Argh!

I realize this original post was 6+ years ago but I felt like I had to reply. This is not that hard of a back. I have recently gotten my cdl , and today I had a delivery in upstate NJ similar to this one - I pulled partly onto the curb prior to the entry of the 'lot', set the brake & flashers and got out to take a look. I saw an S shaped single lane at best with a high concrete wall on the right follow around the back of the commercial property, with a tractor in sight down the way. Mistakenly I took the sight of the tractor as a sign that I was not driving into a place I cannot get out of. So I proceeded forward into my grave, as it seemed at the time. I pulled in past a tractor trailer that had been there since 5am (I later found out) set the brakes, got out and realized the ONLY way out of this was to back into the one spot currently occupied by a tractor trailer since BEFORE there were any other obstacles. I panicked initially..... but not really having a choice I went inside, found the relevant people, got the 2 TT's behind me backed up and the guy backed in but empty outside, to leave. I managed to back in, beside myself, I have no idea how I did it, I unloaded, they checked me out and I left.

In the photo of the "difficult" back, for this thread, there is clearly 35-40 feet in front of the front bumper of the docked tractor trailer. Exactly as in the photo, I also had to back around the docked ~26 foot straight trucks. Where I was today, with less than 2 weeks on my own, AFTER docking, in front of my bumper, there was maybe 20 feet to spare before a gravel incline that rose to a 10 foot concrete wall quickly, allowing no more than a couple feet of extra space.

I really surprised myself that I got into this spot. How did I? I was very frazzled over the situation, and yet, I got in there.

This all leads me to ask, since I was never good at any advanced math, how much forward space is required, at minimum? cab size, trailer size, tandem location & kingpin position is all relevant to the question, but say a standard day cab w/ a 48 foot trailer, tandems all the way forward? Is there a minimum space required?

Is there some sort of formula to answer this, or must we all just "eyeball" it?

I realize this original post was 6+ years ago but I felt like I had to reply. This is not that hard of a back. I have recently gotten my cdl , and today I had a delivery in upstate NJ similar to this one - I pulled partly onto the curb prior to the entry of the 'lot', set the brake & flashers and got out to take a look. I saw an S shaped single lane at best with a high concrete wall on the right follow around the back of the commercial property, with a tractor in sight down the way. Mistakenly I took the sight of the tractor as a sign that I was not driving into a place I cannot get out of. So I proceeded forward into my grave, as it seemed at the time. I pulled in past a tractor trailer that had been there since 5am (I later found out) set the brakes, got out and realized the ONLY way out of this was to back into the one spot currently occupied by a tractor trailer since BEFORE there were any other obstacles. I panicked initially..... but not really having a choice I went inside, found the relevant people, got the 2 TT's behind me backed up and the guy backed in but empty outside, to leave. I managed to back in, beside myself, I have no idea how I did it, I unloaded, they checked me out and I left.

In the photo of the "difficult" back, for this thread, there is clearly 35-40 feet in front of the front bumper of the docked tractor trailer. Exactly as in the photo, I also had to back around the docked ~26 foot straight trucks. Where I was today, with less than 2 weeks on my own, AFTER docking, in front of my bumper, there was maybe 20 feet to spare before a gravel incline that rose to a 10 foot concrete wall quickly, allowing no more than a couple feet of extra space.

I really surprised myself that I got into this spot. How did I? I was very frazzled over the situation, and yet, I got in there.

This all leads me to ask, since I was never good at any advanced math, how much forward space is required, at minimum? cab size, trailer size, tandem location & kingpin position is all relevant to the question, but say a standard day cab w/ a 48 foot trailer, tandems all the way forward? Is there a minimum space required?

Is there some sort of formula to answer this, or must we all just "eyeball" it?

Yep, I agree that the backing maneuver would be relatively easy with a day cab truck and a 48-ft trailer. You do daily delivery driving in NYC, so kudos to you for managing that. But, the vehicle you drive is worlds apart from a 80+ ft sleeper cab and trailer combination. You reference the spacing in front. Cut that spacing in half when adding the additional length of vehicle between sleeper truck and longer trailer. A longer trailer needs more space to be able to turn to get in position because it takes more tire revolutions to see an effective change in the position of the rear of the trailer compared with a shorter trailer.

A longer trailer has the advantage of less tail swing (the opposite side of the trailer from the side on which the trailer tandems are pivoting) as a percentage of the overall length of the trailer. That's the only advantage of a longer trailer over a shorter one, when backing.

Ryan wrote:

A longer trailer has the advantage of less tail swing (the opposite side of the trailer from the side on which the trailer tandems are pivoting) as a percentage of the overall length of the trailer. That's the only advantage of a longer trailer over a shorter one, when backing.

Shorter trailers like 28' pups have no tail swing yet are more difficult (at first) to back than a longer wagon. I drive a 48' chip trailer with a fixed tandem , thus no tail swing at all.

This point is relative to placement of the tandems on a 53' trailer. Backing any length trailer is challenging for a new driver.

Ryan wrote:

A longer trailer has the advantage of less tail swing (the opposite side of the trailer from the side on which the trailer tandems are pivoting) as a percentage of the overall length of the trailer. That's the only advantage of a longer trailer over a shorter one, when backing.

Shorter trailers like 28' pups have no tail swing yet are more difficult (at first) to back than a longer wagon. I drive a 48' chip trailer with a fixed tandem , thus no tail swing at all.

This point is relative to placement of the tandems on a 53' trailer. Backing any length trailer is challenging for a new driver.

I see you took time to correct me here on a rather minor detail that was not significant to the point made. Did you think to correct PackRat on totally being wrong about West Virginia not having a bridge law regulation? Or, in the training diaries, did you think to correct the person stating that a tanker endorsement is needed to haul bottles of water?

This is where you start to lose credibility. You nitpick the things I post and totally ignore much more significant errors from others.

Should we all be eternally grateful you are here for credibility issues, Ryan?

I thought you wrote you were leaving us to spend more time elsewhere several weeks ago. You open your mouth about the moderators and other long time members concerning credibility huh?

Should we all be eternally grateful you are here for credibility issues, Ryan?

I thought you wrote you were leaving us to spend more time elsewhere several weeks ago. You open your mouth about the moderators and other long time members concerning credibility huh?

I thought the site was all about the accuracy of information provided. It shouldn't matter from whom the information comes, so long as it is accurate, right?

You're still here?

Ryan has it occurred to you I read both the posts you mentioned and chose not to reply because your reply corrected the information adequately?

But I’m going to correct you on one point; WV kingpin law is an anomaly, does not adhere to either diagram and it’s definitely not a bridge law. Those two terms are not interchangeable; bridge law is federal, kingpin law is by state.

And who are you to question anyone’s credibility? You are by far the most antagonistic, biggest pain in the ass on here. 600+ posts are you’re still in moderation. A dubious distinction that you continue to earn.

I pick and choose where and how to reply because I value my free time and prefer not to spend all of it on here policing every single post. I’m not paid, I volunteer my service because I believe in Trucking Truth, this forum and the sense of community we have.

And as far as my comment to your point about backing… it’s on you if you thought it nitpicking. It’s a shame you cannot hold yourself to the same level of perfection and accuracy you seem to demand from everyone else.

Learn your place, get along, or move on. Fact check yourself so we no longer need to.

Backing is going to be very different depending on the equipment variables. I don’t believe in saying you need X amount of feet to acvomplish your goal.

First variable is the tractor. Wheelbase, steering axis and fifth wheel placement all play their own part.

Trailers are not all the same. Box’s with tandem axles, depending on length, spread axle’s will turn and react differently. For new readers, yes they make spread axle box trailers.

Stepdecks and flatbeds turn differently even though they are both spread axle. Some even can slide, not all are fixed. If a spread axle has a dump feature on the rear air bags you can move the pivot point to the front axle.

Of course the other variable consistent among all is the trailer length. Not all trailers are 53’.

My best advice is to get to know your equipment and learn how it reacts. Then and only then can you eyeball a situation and figure out what room is needed.