HOS Violation

... and the violation of really up to the Officer. A reasonable explanation should work.

But talking to a Qualcomm is like taking to a wall! How do you fix the logs?

... and the violation of really up to the Officer. A reasonable explanation should work.

But talking to a Qualcomm is like taking to a wall! How do you fix the logs?

The reality to it, is that if this is a one time occurrence, the driver can call the log dept. at his companies main terminal. After explaining to them the situation he was put in, and depending on his previous track record for this offense, the log dept. has the ability to fix his logs for him, so that if he gets an inspection, and gets his logs checked during the next week, he won't have to worry about getting ticketed for it.

Depending on the company, another way to have handled the situation would be to call your DM and have the entire truck towed, to prevent the HOS violation.

A third way to handle that situation would be to drop the trailer at the shipper or consignee , and bobtail out on personal conveyance. Of course, you would need to go back and edit your logs with a drop, if you were smart enough to not approve all your logs before you went on break. If you did approve your logs already, you could always call the log dept. and they could fix that situation for you.

This type of thing is totally unprofessional on the part of the shipper or consignee. They need to get their act together, and decide what their policy is going to be. If I found myself in the same situation, I would probably call DOT in the state where it occurred and complain, depending on how my logs looked at the time.

I have a good friend back home that is a DOT officer ( sorry same passion for corvettes). Anyhow we both discussed HOS scenio's one day last year. I asked home many questions pertaining to violations similar to this one and others. In a nut shell he basically told me when they look at logs they are looking for patterns of abuse. Having minor incidents of 3 minutes here or 5 minutes there over the course of a month will not get you in trouble. E logs also are required to be able to retain 30 days of info. You may only see 7 but it retains 30 for DOT.

They also look for patterns of drivers continually using off duty. This coupled a with a few drive time violations is also an indication of abuse. If your logs are examined due to accident there's a higher level scrutiny to the process. He always jokes to let him know when I am driving through so he can inspect me and split the 100 bucks I get for a clean inspection. I reply the only time I want him looking at my truck is in street clothes with a beer in his hand.

I've heard stories of drivers in this scenario asking to obstinate security guard to call the police - explaining the situation to the officer calmly, courteously and professionally. Inform the officer that the previous shift had given permission to park there, that moving the rig would be a violation of federal regulations and request that he escort you to the nearest safe and legal place for you to park. The KEY to this, is to be CALM AND PROFESSIONAL when the officer shows up. Being angry and belligerent - towards the security guard and the cop is going to cause more problems than it solves.

Get an incident report number, and refer this to your dm , safety and log department.

There's no easy answer for this kind of occurrence. From what I hear, it happens once in awhile. Back it up by documenting (ie: having a police report).

If you're not a "problem child" (running yourself out of hours on a regular basis, and not being somewhere safe/legal to park), and you will have documented proof the violation was caused by conditions not in your control.

If you really want to do a CYA - start your 10 hour break again after you get moved. Or at least do 8 hours, so you can do a "split" and get back enough on your 14 to move back to the consignee and drop the load.

Rick

This is one of the Grey areas of trucking that falls in the limited violation set. Are you technicaly ticketable yea, but most officers live in the real world to and you would need to find one who's wife is cheating on him so he is in a bad mood and looking to dish out pain. Is simple really, do you gain anything from interrupting your 10 and having to start over, no. So it's obvious something ****y happened and you weren't trying to slip a cheat in.

If you really want to do a CYA - start your 10 hour break again after you get moved. Or at least do 8 hours, so you can do a "split" and get back enough on your 14 to move back to the consignee and drop the load.

Rick

And that is exactly what I did. I just took another 10.

I was wondering about this. I've only been at this for two weeks, and yesterday I called in to tell them I didn't think I could pick up the load I was assigned because I was close on hours. They talked me in to it, and of course I got delayed at the shipper and ended up drivingfor 15 minute after my 14 hours. I drove to the nearest truck stop. Then today I was turning into the yard where I park for the weekend when the qc announced i was in violation. Logs ended uo showing 2 minutes of driving. Was wondering how much trouble I'd be in if inspected. Obviously they're violations, but it isn't like I was trying to get in extra hours of driving.

Didn't I read something recently saying that this year or something that shippers / receivers can't kick you off property if you're out of hours or something... that they have to allow you to take your 10 hour there if it would mean an hos violation if they didn't?

*10 min later fo google searching*

found it: https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety/coercion

the wording they used is threatening things like job security however one could say that making you violate hos regulations could be a threat to the security of your job, or trying to have you arrested, etc.

now you still have to move I think BUT when you file a complaint that shipper , receiver (or carrier, etc) will get a nice juicy $16,000 fine for it.

This regulation took effect Jan 29th, 2016

this article also talks about ways to help yourself in such a situation, it's dated before this regulation, but still good practice http://blog.chrwtrucks.com/driver/hours-service-best-practices-drivers-shippers/

Didn't I read something recently saying that this year or something that shippers / receivers can't kick you off property if you're out of hours or something... that they have to allow you to take your 10 hour there if it would mean an hos violation if they didn't?

*10 min later fo google searching*

found it: https://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/safety/coercion

the wording they used is threatening things like job security however one could say that making you violate hos regulations could be a threat to the security of your job, or trying to have you arrested, etc.

now you still have to move I think BUT when you file a complaint that shipper , receiver (or carrier, etc) will get a nice juicy $16,000 fine for it.

This regulation took effect Jan 29th, 2016

this article also talks about ways to help yourself in such a situation, it's dated before this regulation, but still good practice http://blog.chrwtrucks.com/driver/hours-service-best-practices-drivers-shippers/

I had heard there was going to be some further clarification of the coercion rules. These have been in effect in a similar form for quite awhile.

Notice that OHSA - not FMCSA actually handles and prosecutes these complaints, and in the past - there have been some hefty fines issued. But they have usually been centered around a CARRIER firing a driver for refusal to go over HOS regs, drive in unsafe conditions, or operate an unsafe CMV. The only cases you really see reported in trucking news articles, center around fired drivers.

Haven't really heard of a prosecution against a shipper/receiver, or one that happened that didn't come from a driver getting let go and seeking re-instatement, back pay, etc. (and the punitive fines have been pretty hefty also - don't know if these go to the driver, or to OSHA).

Drivers might want to PRINT A COPY of these coercion rules and keep them with you to show a security, cop, etc. - if in fact you are coerced to violate HOS regs in the original posters example.

And again, make sure you document with QC messages (might not hurt to take a pic with your phone of the QC messages), police reports, etc. to back you up.

Rick

My experience with this situation, has been that if I go to the shipping office when I get down to 2 hours on my clock, and let them know my clock is getting low, it usually creates a negative situation. I actually had one shipping supervisor blow up on me, and say that we always do this to him, and he was tired of it. I replied by asking if my company made a habit of sending drivers in with a low clock, and he responded by saying that it wasn't just my company, it was all of them.

Now, when I get a pre plan load offer for that shipper , if I can't show up with at least 7 hours on my 14, I turn down the load. 7 hours gives the shipper 6 hours to get me loaded, and 1 for me to get out.

The real problem in these situations, is the organizational skills of the shipper involved. You see 90% of the shippers and receivers rocking and rolling, staying on schedule, and making things run smoothly. The other 10% have upper management issues, that in reality need to be resolved with a house cleaning. Sadly, a lot of companies in this economy want to hire people to do a job, which they have no education or experience in, to save a little money.

I'm sure they can bluff a few drivers into violating their HOS and keeping their mouths shut, but all they are doing with some of us, are encouraging us to exercise the option to run another load for another company.

Personally, I don't care to work with unprofessional people, and when I am forced to, it encourages me to explore other options.