Don't Be Fooled By Owner Operator Math - Old School's First Podcast!!

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Grumpy Old Man's Comment
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I have always been intrigued by O/O's or any small business owner for that matter. And when I've asked people in the industry whether it have been a cdl instructor, Schneider trainer whoever the response of "anyone who is considering being a o/o is a dumb M-efer" Doesn't really do it for me. And yes I will say again I know business owners that are very happy with their lifestyle. I'll be happy to dig more. What a crazy concept to be able to make something of yourself like that, employee others, and be your own boss. What happens if you break your leg as a company driver? Still has bills. Sure not that of a owner operator. And maybe getting some money from somewhere. The bottom line for me was I was looking for exactly what Rainy posted some real eye opening cold hard facts. I really don't understand why you care that much to begin with. There are still truck drivers are they not? You are making it sound like they are scum of the Earth. That guy Truckerjourney would appear pretty happy. For him is obviously more the lifestyle, a sense of pride to be able to do what he's doing. He was a Marine as was I. Certainly didn't do that for money. For him it resonated to him. And I'm sure he got quite a bit of help from the VA from business loans etc.

If you break your leg on the job, it will be covered by worker's comp, and you will get about 66% of your average earnings, which will pretty much equal your take home, as it is tax free. If you do it on your off time, you are on your own, as I was. You will have no income, and possibly lots of bills. We have Blue Cross/Blue Shield, and we still had to pay huge bills. MY portion of the ambulance alone was $1500 or more. For 10 miles. That is why I said get the short term disability if the company offers it.

I was a Marine too. I was also happy running my own business. I was able to make enough to pay my bills and salary, and put a bit aside, until disaster struck.

But my liabilities were small. A $20K van, some hand tools, and insurance, fuel, and maintenance on a small truck. Research the costs of repairs, insurance, fuel, and maintenance on a semi. Research how many trucks are repossessed every year.

Don't take our advice, go lease a truck, if you are hell bent on doing so. Get back to us in a year. If you can still afford internet access.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

Owner Operator:

An owner-operator is a driver who either owns or leases the truck they are driving. A self-employed driver.

Old School's Comment
member avatar
when I've asked people in the industry whether it have been a cdl instructor, Schneider trainer whoever the response of "anyone who is considering being a o/o is a dumb M-efer" Doesn't really do it for me.

Brian, you know that is completely unfair to lump us into that scenario. We've given you all kinds of information and numbers that you refuse to recognize. You're so bullheaded that your reality is whatever your imagination allows it to be. You live for emotion that's devoid of knowledge and logic. You are the perfect candidate for a leasing company such as Dart, who advertises with this slogan...

Drive Likw A Boss!

This statement is bizarre...

I really don't understand why you care that much to begin with. There are still truck drivers are they not? You are making it sound like they are scum of the Earth.

Here's what we care about... We care about the truth! Something you seem to skirt around with pleasure. We've said nothing to indicate that people who've followed their dream into leasing or owning and operating a truck are "scum of the earth." You are going to have to stop all this insulting innuendo and have a real conversation if you ever plan on learning anything of value.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar
The bottom line for me was I was looking for exactly what Rainy posted some real eye opening cold hard facts.

That's because you don't seem to be able to grasp the concepts we're talking about, like what it takes to build real wealth, why you shouldn't take on extra risk and hard work without any return on that investment, or what a commodity business is. If you can't grasp these concepts and can only work with raw numbers then you're not ready to go into business for yourself.

I really don't understand why you care that much to begin with. There are still truck drivers are they not? You are making it sound like they are scum of the Earth.

Obviously you're taking this very personally and getting your feelings hurt by what are simply the facts of the matter. If you really wanted to know the truth you would be thanking us for sharing our knowledge and experience with you so you can learn lessons the easy way instead of the hard way. You don't seem to want to know the truth, you want us to tell you that we support your ideas no matter what. Well that's what moms are for. We're here to tell you the way it really is, even if you don't like to hear it. In fact, the stuff you don't like to hear is the stuff you need the most.

That guy Truckerjourney would appear pretty happy.

First of all, I don't know anyone who goes to social media to make themselves look unhappy, do you? It's a highlight reel. That's the whole point. People are trying to convince the world of how good their life is.

For him is obviously more the lifestyle, a sense of pride to be able to do what he's doing.

How is his lifestyle different from a company driver? It's not. He has a lot more risk and a lot more work to do than a company driver, but his lifestyle is exactly the same. In fact, reread what Rainy wrote. She has a lot more fun, a lot less stress, gets more days off, and makes just as much money as her boyfriend who is leasing his truck, has resorted to training students full time, and hardly ever takes any time off. Rainy has a much more enjoyable lifestyle as a company driver.

As far as the pride, I had just mentioned that the people they're targeting for leasing or owning trucks are:

Insecure to some degree, so they feel good when they think they're in control and can brag about their accomplishments.

Being a business owner in itself isn't something to be proud of. Anyone can do that. A seven year old can set up a lemonade stand in the front yard and be in business.

Being a business owner who is able to grow their profits and build real wealth over the long term - that's something to be proud of because it's quite rare and exceedingly difficult. But almost anyone can go buy a truck and keep it on the road. That's not a very big accomplishment.

Listen, don't get your feelings hurt by what we're saying. Go out there and buy yourself a truck if that's what you want to do. It's not like you're going to hurt our feelings. We could buy ourselves a truck if we wanted to. We don't want to, and we're explaining to people why that is so they can make informed decisions.

You have the information you need. We've told you what we know, now go do with it whatever you like. Don't let us slow you down.

Rainy D.'s Comment
member avatar

Bryan,

Please.understand that this.forum.is geared toward people interested in gaining their CDL. People who have never driven a truck at all. They go to these companies and amazingly enough, it isnt the trucking companies push the lease/oo concept on new drivers. its the other drivers. They wear it like a badge of honor, yet most are complaining about being in the hole. And they went lease right out of training so know no better. If you look at the negative reviews about Prime, 90% are from lease ops who blame Prime. Its not Primes fault, the driver didnt read the contact, didnt know the business and winds up in the hole. they dont research either. Example, the lease contract says you can take a prime truck you are leasing to another company with the permission of prime. sounds great! but the contract can be terminated at any time by either party. If you decide to take your lease truck out of prime, you need a contract amendment stating your new company will.take X amount of money from your settlement and pay prime directly GREAT! except almost no company will take the time and money to do that.

what happens if i get sick as a company driver? I just took a month off for surgery. My total surgery bill was $52,000. With my insurance i only paid $900. Thanks to my savings, I was able to pay $2700 for the hotel, $1600 for the rental car, and i spent a couple thousand while out. Everything is paid and not on credit cards.

My insurance covered the surgery and my disability paid $1000 per week for 2 of my weeks out.

Now, MOST lease ops i know who do not team with a spouse do not have health insurance. Many team with the spouse and the spouse gets the medical through prime to cover both. The rest claim they cant afford it. And they dont have disability. or the other insurances either.

that means a lease op in my situation would have paid $4300 for the hotel and car, plus the minimum of $5600 for the lease and truck insurance etc. Plus they wouldnt have had the health insurance. so then what?

Theres a prime driver on FB who as a company driver, went from homeless to paying $100,000 in cash for her house in 4 years. Shes on the Prime FB page if you want to see the post.

On the flip side, one of our forum members became a lease op after a year then started training to make.money. Now he is no longer training but posting on FB that he is "flat broke and looking for free stuff to do while i wait for my new lease to come in....i have my car here, but am really broke and cant spend too.much on gas." REALLY???? whats is the point then?

Our problem is not someone succeeding, we want everyone to succeed. We just dont want new drivers who dont have how to drive to get over their head. There is SO much to know. If I just started med school, would you want me performing brain surgery on you? If you were on death row, would you want me writing your appeal if i was a paralegal and not a lawyer? same thing. too new.

Another issue....Newbies cant train, so you cant take a student and get out of the hole. Newbies get stuck and need tows. which counts as accidents and the tow bill is the lease ops problem. Then newbies get an idea of "ill just take an experienced driver to team with" but they cant afford an experienced driver cause they dont knownwhat they are doing.

AND that doesnt count the HOS time management. In order to rack.up those high miles teaming or solo, you need to know how to get 34s when you need them, take rolling 34s while teaming, and know when and where you can drop loads early.

I hate those who convince others it can be great from the beginning. I considered recently to try it. I collected my friends end of year statements and they were all pretty similar.

heres a secret...the FMs get paid based on your prodictivity. So now you hussle constantly but you have a $6000 revenue this week. the guy next to you is in the hole $1500. guess who is getting that $2 per mile load? the bum next to you cause even if you deserve it, that FM.doesnt get his bonus if that guy stays in the hole. You will get a load, but a cheaper one not the prized one.

on the other hand, i get rhe highest mile available load. and i get it as a preplan way before i deliver. The lease ops will argue back and forth for hours over accepting ONE load. Im rolling and making money.

With all that said, if someone with a couple years in says they want to try, awesome. go.for it. But that walk away lease is not truly walk away. you still owe any and all damage to the truck including every drill hole for the TV and game center, plus whatever you owe for that week and any previous balance.

Its not hate or thinking an owner or lease op is evil. its fear that some braggards are misguiding new drivers into a fantasyland without telling them all the risks. i ran my dads shop.of 80+ employees so i think i have more understanding than many others. amd many look at the lease trucks as new toys. people with bad credit who.couldnt get a more reasonable payment elsewhere.

i posted about a lease op.last year who picked up his truck and first load, came back.to the terminal one mile away to scale and rolled the truck. So he owed the Prime schooling of $4000+, the $2000 in insurance deductible, and the $1400 truck payments. and he lost his job and wont get hired anywhere for a long time. THAT is what we are fearing and trying to.prevent.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar

A dreamer is someone who never lets the facts get in the way of their hopes.

A realist never lets their hopes get in the way of the facts.

The trick in business is to dream big but be real with yourself about the facts. Your fate will lie in how successfully you can merge those two competing forces.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Rainy D.'s Comment
member avatar

double-quotes-start.png

but even as a business owner, you still have a boss. Many of them, in the form of customers.

double-quotes-end.png

There's no law nor any contract that says they have to give you enough of the right freight to stay in business. You think you're calling all the shots? Think again.

This is something else drivers dont understand cause they dont read the contract. our contract says a guaranteed average of $1.04 per mile. not a minimum but a minimum average. which means it could be really low.

i feel like an owner op. i never deal with dispatch unless i want to. i tell them my plan to fix my truck, pick up trailers, or whatever else i need and get "10/4 thanks".

eh... Im done.

Brian's Comment
member avatar

All I was interested in seeing was specific numbers. Merely curious. I've have never seen numbers like Rainy posted before. Had no idea how much all of those things costed. And have never been able to talk to an o/o till earlier this week, but didn't have a chance to talk numbers. But I will say I asked him how it was going for him, and he said great been doing it for 8 years. Face was lit as a Christmas tree talking about it. I believe him on that their was no faking that conversation. I was grasping your concept just fine. I'm not looking to be a L/O or O/O or saying new drivers should jump in or anything of the sort. They're probably an extremely small precentage of successful ones, sure. But I find alot of great info passed around on this site and that's what I was looking for.

Rainy, thanks for taking the time to post all of that but very informative.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Fatsquatch 's Comment
member avatar

Here's something to chew on: if these lease/lease purchase plans are so amazingly lucrative, why do companies have to try so hard to sell them to the drivers? If it's such a screaming deal, there should be drivers lined up out to the street begging to sign a lease, but there isn't. Instead, there are people in the office practically begging drivers to come in and sign.

Funny, that.

Grumpy Old Man's Comment
member avatar

Injuries as an O/O, or as a 1099 contractor will likely not be covered by worker's comp either.

The main reason companies push leasing or 1099 is so they save paying worker's comp, 1/2 your social security, unemployment insurance, their portion of health insurance, disability insurance, and the list goes on and on.

I've seen companies advertise for drivers to lease trucks with no credit check, so I assume they are either leasing their own truck to the driver, sub leasing a leased truck to the driver, or guaranteeing payment. They would not take that financial risk if there were not huge monetary advantages in their favor.

Rainy D.'s Comment
member avatar

All I was interested in seeing was specific numbers. Merely curious. I've have never seen numbers like Rainy posted before. Had no idea how much all of those things costed.

Rainy, thanks for taking the time to post all of that but very informative.

Your welcome.

This is part of what we were trying to say. None of them will.post the numbers because most wont understand them and others just want to brag about that huge revenue. They cant answer when you question them.

I have a unique situation that my guy gave me returns for the past three years for me to look at. I have the contracts and understand the legelese of them.

Its an ongoing problem. Yes i believe the driver was proud. But many of these guys have no money at the end of the year to pay the tax man cause they spent it all.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
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