I'm Headed To Springfield Prime Fri

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Old School's Comment
member avatar

Plan B, you fell for the very things we always warn you guys about. You let your L/O trainer show you his settlements. Those settlement checks don't mean anything. Now, if he would be so kind to show you the "adjusted gross income" line on his tax returns, then we'd all be glad to hear your story about his actual income.

And I felt I had to point out Austin's disingenuous title as "Experienced Driver" because it falls right into line with everything I stressed in our recent podcast...

Don't Be Fooled By Owner Operator Math

It makes no sense to let a rookie driver with six months experience tell you how much he's making as a Lease/Operator. He's still on a "honeymoon high" and obviously doesn't even understand the numbers. It's all fine and good with me for him to believe what he wants about his results, but when he starts throwing out numbers that can't possibly be, I'm going to recognize it, and regretfully have to point it out.

There are reasons this forum has to be heavily moderated. Those reasons play a role in why we don't allow people to edit their posts. We just happen to have an affinity for "the truth." People get too sensitive and think we're piling on, when what we're usually having to do is simply respond to inaccuracies. Sure, we lose friends in here over that at times, but we can sleep well knowing we haven't jumped on the bandwagon of trucking myths and outright false and misleading information.

Owner Operator:

An owner-operator is a driver who either owns or leases the truck they are driving. A self-employed driver.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Austin O.'s Comment
member avatar

Even though I feel mistreated and attacked by some of you and not giving me a chance to go on I'll still share more info with you... basically the way I'm able to stay around the $2,000 mark is I'm always in the northeast doing shorter trips. Very rarely I go west of the Mississippi river. And when I'm below that 2 mark its because I took time off or I go all the way up to Maine and get something that pays lower or i get stuck at a customer. Sometimes I'm to tired after a load and want to take 10 early.... I prefer to drive at night way less traffic and when it's time to shut down I have no issues finding parking since its after 0800. I do about 5, 6 on average loads a week. Thats how I'm able to average the amount I said. Sometimes more sometimes less... can we please all be grown adults and not try to find everyone's faults?

Old School's Comment
member avatar
can we please all be grown adults and not try to find everyone's faults?

Nobody's trying to find fault. Adults generally appreciate discerning truth from errors. That's what we stress here - the truth. Six month rookies don't net $2,000 a week, I understand how and why it appears that way to you, but come next April 15th you will be singing a different tune. You just haven't realized that yet.

Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar
Even though I feel mistreated and attacked by some of you

You haven't been attacked or mistreated, but we are going to expect you to be able to verify your claims, especially when we know from experience they're not accurate. We have an obligation to make sure that people get honest, accurate information. The truth of the matter is that no lease driver running solo can make $100,000 profit in a year, but that's exactly what everyone is going to project the instant they hear you say you're making an average net of $2k per week.

If you would have said, "Hey, I'm new to this so I'm not really sure what my numbers will be in the end" or "Hey, I think I'm probably going to make about the same as a company driver" then no one would have questioned anything. But you threw out that big number, just like everyone in your position likes to do, so then we have to jump in and verify the facts, which always upsets those who are emotionally attached to the hope of owning or leasing a truck.

You shouldn't feel attacked, but you should do your best to understand the business you're in, and that's what we're expecting you to demonstrate. If you're going to claim you're making big money, we expect you to be able to explain to us how you're able to do that, especially considering the fact that people who have been in this business for decades at the highest levels can't make anywhere close to what you claim you're making.

We've thrown a lot of questions at you and PlanB, most of which have gone unanswered, as they almost always do in these situations. We're trying to see exactly how well you really understand your business. Or to be even more forthright, in this case we're trying to show you really don't understand your numbers or your business very well which is why you think you're making a lot more than you really are.

So yeah, if someone comes here claiming to make way, way more than the best and brightest minds at the largest, most successful companies in this business have ever figured out how to make, we'd really like to know exactly how that rookie is doing it.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Austin O.'s Comment
member avatar

As I mentioned earlier I didn't get a chance to respond to every comment due to the fact that everyone got all hyped up over this and everyone made their comments at once which led to some comments getting pushed back. What would you like to know? For the moment I have time to answer your questions. I dont see how anyone could get that I implied 100k. I never claimed to earn 100k. Does everybody know the definition of "average" means? Apparently not... in my last comment I told you how I earn that number I do exactly that week after week month after month except during those occasions as stated in my previous comments. I'm confident that the numbers I have are pretty accurate and no I'm not saying they're 100% accurate but I'm not the only one that's looked them over and got the same results. Business numbers are not uncharted territory for me as my previous profession was in business management with a non for profit organization so yes I'm very familiar with taxes too...

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Grumpy Old Man's Comment
member avatar

How long have you been operating as a lease operator?

Splitter's Comment
member avatar

I’m quoting this to show you, Austin, why we feel the way we do about leasing vs company. Rainy posted this in another thread:

Im at prime as a company driver and love it. there is a bit of a lease/company driver kind of standoff if you will within trucking itself.

i am here to tell ya...MOST of the reasons lease ops give at Prime for not wanting to be company are flat out lies and myths. most lease ops have never been compamy drivers so they have only the rumors they heard.

FACT: i make about the same solo as a solo lease op

FACT: Most lease ops team train because they have to not because they want to; new drivers cannot train so you cant even get out of the hole.

FACT: there are 2 reasons to lease which are that you can turn down loads and go home whenever you want

FACT: if you turn down loads you do not make money

FACT: i get more hometime than most lease ops

FACT: Most lease ops do not qualify for a mortgage because their legal income is not high enough. when you write off all expenses, it also reduces your reported income

FACT: I know.lease ops whose annual average load was $1.25 with .75cpm operation costs. that puts them at 50cpm....with my fuel bonus i make that and lightweight company drivers make more.

FACT: if i deviate from my routing no.one cares

FACT: Since thanksgiving i went home 20 days and took 4 off in the terminals My lease op boyfriend spent a total of 8 days including only 3 days at christmas.

FACT: no one tells me.where to park at the end of my day

FACT; i do what i want, i only need to ask.

FACT,: No one at prime.has ever inspected my truck (a rumor lease ops.believe is that prime will search your belongings every couple.montbs. lie.

i could go on and on. lease ops love showing you their big numbers and i fell for it too at first.

However...they dont tell you that they pay up to $6000 for just the truck and miles each momth. yep $1000 per week for the truck payment and 10% for miles. so.if you are team training that is $500 per week for miles then maintenance fund, insurance, fuel, the trainees pay and taxes, and so.mich more.

and they dont have health insurance.

i coukd go.on and on...but i have documented end of the year settlements from lease ops and i ha e my own as company.

totally not worth it.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

CPM:

Cents Per Mile

Drivers are often paid by the mile and it's given in cents per mile, or cpm.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Rainy D.'s Comment
member avatar

I apologize if I sounded sarcastic. I.wanted real numbers not average numbers. i asked for specific numbers which you guys see me.break.down numbers for.people all the time.even going company to company for training. (i just did it for splitters pay to break down his YTD gross into weekly for people to see)

I wanted the total revenue, operation costs and number of.days home time. that all makes a HUGE difference. And any good business person would know these. where the person lives makes a difference. are they in FL AR or AL so home time requires cheap loads coming out? what are the chances they get $2 per mile loads like coca cola in FL? My friend just sat for 2 days in auburndale and they only gave him 98cpm loads. he said screw it and drove home to Miami and took home time until they could get him a coke load. he never goes home normally.

True i.said something like $70k then deduct the $15k in taxes. yes as a company driver i would pay taxes, and in NJ i.pay more in taxes than someone in delaware. the taxes would.probably be offset by the health and benefits costs differences though. also, my $72k per year had me going home 60 days and that didnt include terminal down time for truck changes or repairs. So did he go home only 30 days and make the same.amount of money? if so, you can see if i added 30.days of work to my 72k then as a company driver i would make.more.

Or, if we both made $70k after his expenses then compare the health insurance. My total insurance is $2400 per year for all.options. as i said, it would cost me $9600 for just BCBS. thats a difference of $7200 per year meaning i would make more.

I sincerely looked at both lease and lease purchase. i looked at leasing a truck from a friend and going to Fedex which has a much higher freight pay than Prime. I even discussed having splitter come team with me on a lease truck, but when i broke down the fixed costs, the excess mileage (which can be 10cpm depending on miles) and more, it didnt pan out.

Freight this year has gone up so the profits have gone up. But fuel has increased also this year. The time of year will cause freight and fuel will fluxuate too. this is why the annual totals are important, not the past few weeks.

asking someone for the "adjusted gross income" from their taxes is misleading because that includes all the deductions they make such as "i bought a laptop to play training videos" etc. a smart tax man can get that $250k down to $25k for tax purposes.

Seriously...i hate this automatic so badly, i considered forking over the $14k as a down payment for.a lease purchase and ordering a manual.

i wasnt being sarcastic at all. i wanted real numbers. and we have had a LOT of people who have come through this forum, whom i met in person and stay in contact with who went lease after company. Not one has told me it was truly worth it. two went back to company and thousands are being deducted from their pay to pay back prime. Kanelin told me his FM was breaking his stones about fuel mpg costs despite him paying the fuel himself. this is because even the lease FMs pay and numbers are affected by the mpg. several who train have forked over thousands in deductibles for student accidents.

the claim classes this week showed how lease ops have recently paid $50,000 or more in damaged loads due to not securing the load properly. One had a hard brake event and the entire meat combo load went SPLAT. That isnt covered by the $500 accident deductible because there was no accident. Another TnT set the temp wrong and ruined the whole load, the lease op paid the entire cost of the rejected freight.

what shocked me was that none of these people in class understood the possibility of these risks. Me being me, i asked what if it was a sealed trailer, who would absorb the costs? what if the reefer wanst working properly? i asked a ton of questions and everyone nodded along with me, but it seemed as though many never entertained the possibilities.

i just sat down with the guy who first leased the truck i have. he did his research and gave me.real.numbers of the discount prime gets on trucks. buying his SPECIFIC truck as a lease purchase was cheaper for him than buying it at a dealership due to the huge discount Prime gets on the trucks and basically the penalties he would pay as a first time truck owner. Many banks tack on a huge % rate for.first time truck owners becsuse they see a high risk in the lending.

so i seriously wasnt being sarcastic. i wanted real numbers and even at $2000 per week he didnt make it clear if that includes taxes.

also is he paying himself a W2 from the LLC? that makes a huge difference and what are the costs of those taxes (now you involve employer taxes). seriously i would like to know those tax numbers. i ask because three LOs i know could not get mortgages as 1099 because the bank wanted "personal income" not LLC corporate. Two of the married teams are now listing the LO on a W2 to try to qualify but the one bank wantes 5 years of W2s. But i wont have real numbers on the tax difference from them until the end of the year.

if i could.make.more money...i would love to. but i dont want to.kill myself running teams constantly and not taking off to.do.it.

so yeah, i want real numbers and very few people will give that to me.

Terminal:

A facility where trucking companies operate out of, or their "home base" if you will. A lot of major companies have multiple terminals around the country which usually consist of the main office building, a drop lot for trailers, and sometimes a repair shop and wash facilities.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

CPM:

Cents Per Mile

Drivers are often paid by the mile and it's given in cents per mile, or cpm.

Reefer:

A refrigerated trailer.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

TNT:

Trainer-N-Trainee

Prime Inc has their own CDL training program and it's divided into two phases - PSD and TNT.

The PSD (Prime Student Driver) phase is where you'll get your permit and then go on the road for 10,000 miles with a trainer. When you come back you'll get your CDL license and enter the TNT phase.

The TNT phase is the second phase of training where you'll go on the road with an experienced driver for 30,000 miles of team driving. You'll receive 14¢ per mile ($700 per week guaranteed) during this phase. Once you're finished with TNT training you will be assigned a truck to run solo.

Mike D.'s Comment
member avatar

So let me get this straight...they actually pay you to drive one of those big rigs?

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar
asking someone for the "adjusted gross income" from their taxes is misleading because that includes all the deductions they make such as "i bought a laptop to play training videos" etc. a smart tax man can get that $250k down to $25k for tax purposes.

I don't agree with that. To start with, a good tax man isn't going to commit blatant fraud. Sure, you could add a couple of items as write-offs that weren't necessarily for the business, like a phone or a computer, but realistically how much do you think you're going to write off fraudulently? Very little. Your profits aren't going to magically disappear. They're accountants, not magicians.

If you had to buy something for the business then it's a business expense. It went right back out the door, which is what happens to most of the revenues for almost any business, which is exactly our point.

SAP:

Substance Abuse Professional

The Substance Abuse Professional (SAP) is a person who evaluates employees who have violated a DOT drug and alcohol program regulation and makes recommendations concerning education, treatment, follow-up testing, and aftercare.

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