I'm Headed To Springfield Prime Fri

Oops above post should have started:

I don't think anyone would argue.....

Cantankerous you asked who said that. My post was a cumulative response to many many discussions I've read on here about leaseing vs company and such. The comment I was referencing was in as past discussion on this topic.

Old School I do not wish to point fingers at anyone about the posts that I've read and interpreted as sarcastic. Sarcastic intention can be difficult to interpret in text, but there have been multiple responses in lease topic threads that seemed rude and sarcastic in my opinion.

I said I don't want to point fingers, but I would like to point my finger AWAY in your case Old School. In my opinion, you always present your views in a respectful fashion.

Plan B, you mentioned nothing about the risks that a L/O assumes that company driver does not. That is a very real factor to consider.

Absolutely it's a risk. But if you drive safely and take care of your truck as you should, that risk will drastically decrease.

What floored me was when he started in about deadheading 800 miles and acting like it wasn't that big a deal. I know a bunch of lease operators, and none of them make those kind of business decisions. I lost interest at that point because my business background screams at me that something is amiss here. I do my best to speak up in these discussions because I know how many newbies read these threads and are influenced by them. I want them to be influenced with facts, not false hopes.

Really?

Honestly it doesn't surprise me at all that someone would take a financial hit in a family emergency situation.

Family is worth it.

Now Deadheading 800 miles for a load... I'd agree that would be crazy.

Honestly it doesn't surprise me at all that someone would take a financial hit in a family emergency situation.

I completely agree with that. But here's what he said...

I deadheaded those 800 miles took a week off and STILL made a good paycheck.

How does a lease operator take a week off and still make a good paycheck? I feel like an idiot harping on this... after all he had a death in the family - I probably would do the same thing. It's those kind of statements that just make me realize something isn't right about the math in this discussion.

Cantankerous you asked who said that. My post was a cumulative response to many many discussions I've read on here about leaseing vs company and such. The comment I was referencing was in as past discussion on this topic.

Please share it then. You made a claim. Please back it up.

Absolutely it's a risk. But if you drive safely and take care of your truck as you should, that risk will drastically decrease.

Risks, not risk. Your example is only one risk of a multitude that L/Os expose themselves to, many of them unrelated to safe driving and maintenance. Company drivers don't have to worry about that, and they can take home almost as much.

Slip and break your leg. Who is going to be home staring down a lease payment, insurance payments, potential repo, etc while the truck is parked and algae is growing in the fuel tank? Who is going to be collecting workman's comp with no truckly worries?

Are the risks worth the marginal increase in pay?

(Revenue - cost) ÷ timing. Payroll cutoff is Tuesday. Take 7 days off in the middle and you still have 3 days on one week and 4 days on the other week to generate enough revenue to cover costs for both weeks. If the dispatcher found you loads with good rates, you'll still have enough left over to have a decent check.

Honestly it doesn't surprise me at all that someone would take a financial hit in a family emergency situation.

I completely agree with that. But here's what he said...

I deadheaded those 800 miles took a week off and STILL made a good paycheck.

How does a lease operator take a week off and still make a good paycheck? I feel like an idiot harping on this... after all he had a death in the family - I probably would do the same thing. It's those kind of statements that just make me realize something isn't right about the math in this discussion.

The problem with these conversations is that we're the only ones delivering accurate information and it's information no one wants to hear. When someone comes in here with pie-in-the-sky numbers like, "I'm making $2,000 profit a week" when we know for a fact that will never be the case on a consistent basis, we have to step up and say something so others aren't misled.

So we hold their feet to the fire and ask a bunch of tough business questions, knowing they won't have the answers, and it makes us look like the bully who's trying to ruin someone's day. The reality is that we're the only ones giving honest facts and figures and warning people about the realities of leasing or owning a truck. We're providing an incredibly valuable service for those who want the God's honest facts, and upsetting everyone else who wants to hear what they want to hear.

Old School ran his own design and manufacturing business for 30 years, which included a small fleet of trucks, and had planned on buying a truck when he first started in this industry. After running the numbers he realized there just wasn't any money in it beyond what a company driver is already making so he didn't do it. He has tremendous business experience and knows how to evaluate a business proposition.

I've been a business owner myself for 14 years and I've been in the trucking industry for 25 years. Like everyone else I had considered buying or leasing a truck back in the day but came to the same conclusion that everyone does who truly understands how to evaluate a business proposition - there's no money in it beyond what a company driver is already making.

Believe me, if you could consistently make $2,000 a week in profit as a lease driver we'd all be leasing trucks and we'd be telling everyone they should be doing the same. The unfortunate truth is that you can't make that much money leasing a truck as a solo driver. It just isn't going to happen. The profit margins in this industry are very tight to begin with, but then you're running a business that relies on other businesses to provide the services you need, and they're going to take an extra cut of your already tight profit margins.

That's the reality of it.

PlanB, I've noticed you've shown some hostility and frustration toward us recently and I suspect it's because secretly you'd like to buy or lease a truck yourself and you don't like what you're hearing. Otherwise I don't know why you would act like we're wronging people or being hypocrites. The only people who get frustrated with us are the people who don't like what they're hearing because it goes against their hopes. But realize that we're going to give people the hard, cold reality at all times. That's what we do. If you'd rather have someone feed you a bunch of BS you'll have no trouble finding it, it's almost everywhere on the Web. Just not here.

Cantankerous Amicus is a man who clearly understands the perils of business and how to evaluate a business proposition. It quite obvious when you're speaking with someone whether or not they really understand business or not.

If I kept my gross receipts for the last 12 years I have been in business, I would be a rich man today. I would not be closing my business to start another career at 59 years old.

By the time you pay the multitude of extra taxes that you pay as a business (self employed or even corporate), insurance (business, personal, and vehicle), vehicle cost and maintenance, fuel, equipment, and then factor in the risk involved, there is a small percentage of that revenue left. Then from that, you have to put money away for the next purchase you need to make, vehicles, major repairs, etc. to keep the business healthy, plus try to put something away for retirement, since you can't just work until you die, medical science being what it is, you will be disabled long before you die.

After all that, THEN you get to pay yourself a paycheck. And from that, you pay your personal bills, just like everyone else on the planet.

Again, why would these mega companies need lease drivers? They can certainly afford the trucks, insurance, etc. If they hire you as a lease driver or O/O, they save immediately the portion of the taxes that employers pay (7.5% of gross). That burden is now shifted to the O/O. They also save on health insurance, worker's comp, unemployment, and all the other costs to employers. All that goes to the O/O, IF he can even collect WC or UE, which in many states, you can't. To add insult to injury, you may have to pay it and not be able to collect.

So the company takes right off the top their profit for the load, and pays the O/O to deliver it. It is probably the same amount they would net if they simply had a company driver deliver the load. With an O/O, they get to keep all those fixed costs I just mentioned, and variable costs such as repairs, fuel, tolls, etc.

It's a win win for the company. Probably not so much for the O/O.

I may not know driving yet, but I do know business finances.