Still Struggling To Understand HOS

Topic 26669 | Page 3

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Truckin Along With Kearse's Comment
member avatar

So as I understand stand it, in any 24 hour period, you have 14 hours of on duty time,11 of which can be driven, but no more than that. After which you have to take a ten hour break to reset your 14. Is that right?

No...

14 hour clock starts your day. you cannot DRIVE past the end of the 14.

You CAN be ON DUTY past the 14. On duty would include pre/post trip, repairs, customers, paperwork

So if i started at midnight, i have 11 hours i can drive between midnight and 1400 (2pm).

After 2pm, i can still do paperwork and posttrip and other ON DUTY work.

At that end of that on duty time, you need a 10 hour break (off duty or sleeper or any combination thereof).

The 70 is like a credit card. You have 70 hours available credit, as you "spend" your available goes down. Recaps are basically a minimum payment on your credit card. the minimum payment is whatever on duty and drive time you spent on the first day 8 days ago. at midnight those hours get credited back.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Joseph I.'s Comment
member avatar

24 hour period has nothing to do with it. If you only have to drive say 6 hours in a day and then stop. You can take your 10 hour off duty and then restart with a full clock again.

PlanB's Comment
member avatar

What Donna stated is pretty much what the logs advisors at Prime have told me as well. They have explained that while we must log time for both pre and post trips, only one of the inspection periods must be on duty. They claim they have discussed and verified this policy with DoT. Therefore they recommend at least 15 minutes of off duty time at the beginning of our day for pretrip, as this will not start our 14 hour clock. Then approximately 10-15 minutes of on duty time for post trip at the end of your shift, since you can go over your 14 with this on duty not driving status without going into violation. Advised not to log under 10 minutes of inspection time as this is entering competition truck driving championships inspection times. DoT may ask you to demonstrate a sub 10 minute full truck inspection if they see a pattern of short inspection times.

All the above is coming from the logs classes I've attended at Prime.

Donna, there's considerable debate on this topic. You stated this...

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I always take 15 minutes off duty at the beginning for a pretrip and 10 minutes on duty at the end for post trip.

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I'm assuming you meant "on duty" for your pre-trip inspection.

As far as I know, there's not a particular time required by the FMCSA rules that you are required to log for these inspections. It's generally accepted that you allow a minimum of fifteen minutes for your pre-trip inspection. It's tough to convince an officer that you did a thorough inspection in five minutes. Some people don't log a post trip inspection and never seem to have any issues when they go through an inspection with an officer. Others insist it must be logged. I am not aware of any FMCSA rule requiring it.

If your company has a policy on this you should go with what they say.

Pre-trip Inspection:

A pre-trip inspection is a thorough inspection of the truck completed before driving for the first time each day.

Federal and state laws require that drivers inspect their vehicles. Federal and state inspectors also may inspect your vehicles. If they judge a vehicle to be unsafe, they will put it “out of service” until it is repaired.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Joel D.'s Comment
member avatar

So recaps are something that can help extend your drive time, if you needed it.?

PlanB's Comment
member avatar

No

You can log a maximum of 70hrs working during a rolling 8 day period. So whatever time you spent working 8 days ago, you get that time back.

Working on recaps means each day I'm working with that time I've "recapped" from what I worked 8 days ago.

You are still bound by the 14hr on duty and 11hr drive time restrictions.

So recaps are something that can help extend your drive time, if you needed it.?

Red Beard 's Comment
member avatar

As far as recap hrs go, you will never run out of time in a 70 hr week if you can keep your on duty and drive time under 10 hrs a day in a 24 hr period. Not to sound like Capt. Obvious or anything.

The total number of hrs worked on day 1 will "recap" on day 8. The total worked from day 2 will "recap" on day 9, etc.

There is obviously more factors and hypetheticals that can play a role, but this is the meat and potatoes of recap hrs.

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Read a lot of threads about management of your time on the road, but am still struggling to understand it all. I know you guys try to explain it as clearly as possible but I’m just not getting it rn. I really want to though because from what I have read it really is an important aspect of being a truck driver. I’m hoping it will sink in eventually. I feel so dumb.

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I still struggle with it sometimes too, don't feel bad. It's not hard for me to manage my hours since I work a 5 day week. All I have to do is not work more than 14 hours. You need a 10 hour break between shifts.

First you have daily rules: you can't be on duty more than 14 hours. You can't drive for more than 11 and you're required to take a 30 min break before hour 8.

Weekly: you can not work more than 70 hours in a rolling 8 day period. If you hit hour 70 within those 8 days you have to take a 34 hour reset.

Recaps is where I get confused because it's hard for me to keep track of hours. I know there are apps that do it for you, all you do is plug in the numbers but I have found one that works for me. I work with a guy that works 7 days a week and never hits 70 in an 8. I'm sure people on here can explain this in a way that makes sense and do a better job of it than I can.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
G-Town's Comment
member avatar

HOS language is very clear on the difference between on-duty and off-duty. In 6 and half years of solo operation I’ve had my logs reviewed several times and never once cited for a violation.

Why? Simple...I log “what I do” and “do what Is logged”. By HOS definition, a pre-trip inspection and a post-trip inspection is considered work directly related to the performance of our jobs and is not something qualifying as off-duty. Please read this and provide an example of any ambiguity...

Logbook Rules (HOS)

Not trying to start a religious argument, but I’d suggest asking Prime who pays the fine if a DOT inspector or LEO takes exception to any trucking related work logged as off-duty, especially something as important as equipment inspections. Are you permitted to fuel your truck while off-duty? How about hooking to an empty?

Is the revelation Prime shared with you in writing? I’d exercise caution here and be your own advocate. Unless FMCSA has issued an official change to HOS rules, IMO the risk does not outweigh the reward.

That said; at the very least, if coming off a couple days of home time log the PTI at the beginning of your shift as on-duty with the remarks “pre-trip inspection”.

Pre-trip Inspection:

A pre-trip inspection is a thorough inspection of the truck completed before driving for the first time each day.

Federal and state laws require that drivers inspect their vehicles. Federal and state inspectors also may inspect your vehicles. If they judge a vehicle to be unsafe, they will put it “out of service” until it is repaired.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

Logbook:

A written or electronic record of a driver's duty status which must be maintained at all times. The driver records the amount of time spent driving, on-duty not driving, in the sleeper berth, or off duty. The enforcement of the Hours Of Service Rules (HOS) are based upon the entries put in a driver's logbook.

CSA:

Compliance, Safety, Accountability (CSA)

The CSA is a Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration (FMCSA) initiative to improve large truck and bus safety and ultimately reduce crashes, injuries, and fatalities that are related to commercial motor vehicle

FMCSA:

Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

The FMCSA was established within the Department of Transportation on January 1, 2000. Their primary mission is to prevent commercial motor vehicle-related fatalities and injuries.

What Does The FMCSA Do?

  • Commercial Drivers' Licenses
  • Data and Analysis
  • Regulatory Compliance and Enforcement
  • Research and Technology
  • Safety Assistance
  • Support and Information Sharing

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Ralph D.'s Comment
member avatar

G-Town,

That said; at the very least, if coming off a couple days of home time log the PTI at the beginning of your shift as on-duty with the remarks “pre-trip inspection”.

Is that just because of the extended absence from the truck?

Pre-trip Inspection:

A pre-trip inspection is a thorough inspection of the truck completed before driving for the first time each day.

Federal and state laws require that drivers inspect their vehicles. Federal and state inspectors also may inspect your vehicles. If they judge a vehicle to be unsafe, they will put it “out of service” until it is repaired.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Ralph asked for a reason why it’s prudent to log a PTI while on-duty after several days of home time...

Is that just because of the extended absence from the truck?

Indirectly, yes. That’s the simple answer.

Overall IMO the PTI carries more importance and implications for safe operation than a post-trip. I want to know if something can put the truck out of service BEFORE driving it onto a public highway.

Post trip for me is a way to find an “obvious” problem and have it repaired while off-duty.

Donna M.'s Comment
member avatar

I was told when I first started that once you start your clock (On Duty/Drive) you have 14 hours of which 11 is the most that can be On Duty or driving and sometime within the first 8 hours of driving but after 3 hours you must take a 30 minute rest break. After you are On Duty or driving for your 11 or whatever you are doing that day you must go for 10 hours straight of Off Duty /Sleeper Berth to reset your clock. That is the simplest way to handle 90 percent of all you will ever need for HOS rules and all you need in the beginning. At least until there are rule changes.

I’m probably the newest rookie on here. But I don’t agree with what you’re saying. The 11 hour drive is in two parts 8/3 . You can take your break anytime! Say u get to gate waiting on a door 2 hours after starting go on off duty. U will receive 2 hours back after 30 minutes and will lose the other hour if u don’t take a second break. The clock only gives 8 hours. Also u need 8 hours offduty/sleeper to reset clock, u need 10 hours to reset 14. Old School, G-Town somebody correct me if I’m wrong!

Sleeper Berth:

The portion of the tractor behind the seats which acts as the "living space" for the driver. It generally contains a bed (or bunk beds), cabinets, lights, temperature control knobs, and 12 volt plugs for power.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
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