Log Question

Topic 30151 | Page 1

Page 1 of 3 Next Page Go To Page:
John C.'s Comment
member avatar

I have an issue I have a question about, I’m in my final week with my drive instructor. Yesterday we only had eight hours left on our 70s and I was dangerously fatigued my reaction time was down and I was swaying in my lane I had no business on the road. I expressed this to him and he took a load anyhow even though the math showed we did not have enough time to complete it. His truck is governed at 60 and we were 580 miles away from the drop. We were coming a crossed 80 and Iowa today and hit The construction he went into my log and edited my on duty time from the shipper to give me another 45 minutes to complete the load. We pulled into a hotel with five minutes left on my clock which means I would’ve never made that load. all the time at the shipper was valid because I had a drop and couple then deal with the paperwork it wasn’t a problem of me not logging off duty because I should’ve been on duty the whole time. Can what he did get me in trouble and should I say something to my training fleet manager. I was told that editing my log should be rare and only when there is a mistake.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

Fleet Manager:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Moe's Comment
member avatar

Not having any idea who exactly you work for, I would say that would be an issue to take up with safety/compliance and at the very least your Drive Manager.

He (or she) should not have wantonly edited your log.

That is just my .02 cents.

I have an issue I have a question about, I’m in my final week with my drive instructor. Yesterday we only had eight hours left on our 70s and I was dangerously fatigued my reaction time was down and I was swaying in my lane I had no business on the road. I expressed this to him and he took a load anyhow even though the math showed we did not have enough time to complete it. His truck is governed at 60 and we were 580 miles away from the drop. We were coming a crossed 80 and Iowa today and hit The construction he went into my log and edited my on duty time from the shipper to give me another 45 minutes to complete the load. We pulled into a hotel with five minutes left on my clock which means I would’ve never made that load. all the time at the shipper was valid because I had a drop and couple then deal with the paperwork it wasn’t a problem of me not logging off duty because I should’ve been on duty the whole time. Can what he did get me in trouble and should I say something to my training fleet manager. I was told that editing my log should be rare and only when there is a mistake.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

Fleet Manager:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Steve L.'s Comment
member avatar

You’re asking for a friend, right? 😆

Did you, AHEM, did your friend certify his log AFTER the trainer edited the log? The person certifying their logs is making a statement as to the accuracy of the log.

You probably know the answer. I would probably have an adult conversation with the trainer. I’d let him know how much I appreciate his guidance and putting up with my learning curve. Then, I’d make it clear I’m not gonna certify logs that are inaccurate. If that’s a problem, I’d ask for a new trainer.

Just my opinion.

Big Scott (CFI's biggest 's Comment
member avatar

As a trainer, if my student makes a mistake on his logs, I show him how to fix it and he fixes it. I explain the why as well. Your logs are a legal document. When you are driving you're captain of the ship. If you're too tired, find a safe place to park and go to sleep. If you were to have and accident while tired, you would be at fault. You operating a CMV impaired by exhaustion and him falsifying your logs are both illegal. In the long run all of that falls on you. An assertive conversation with your trainer is in order. If that doesn't work, a call to your safety and training department is next.

That trainer is teaching you to be a dangerous driver.

CMV:

Commercial Motor Vehicle

A CMV is a vehicle that is used as part of a business, is involved in interstate commerce, and may fit any of these descriptions:

  • Weighs 10,001 pounds or more
  • Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more
  • Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) not for compensation
  • Is designed or used to transport 9 or more passengers (including the driver) for compensation
  • Is transporting hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placards
John C.'s Comment
member avatar

Thank you all. I called my training FM and they are routing us in early before my safety test to solo for a meeting with safety. She was very helpful and said none of this was legit. She looked up our macros and confirmed it was my trainer that requested a load and no mention of fatigue or hours. Which I figured because he did mention he wanted another load before the Saturday night cut off. At this company he does know driving essentially he is a passenger only

Fm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Big Scott (CFI's biggest 's Comment
member avatar

That's good. At CFI we are dispatched as a solo truck. My student drives and I am on duty. This keeps our hours about equal.

Good luck.

Old School's Comment
member avatar

I want to take a different approach to this. Hear me out before you go flaming me.

I don't condone what the trainer did in this instance, but I think there are some things here in this post that are instructional for new drivers. I read this post carefully several times when it was first posted. I didn't want to say the things I was thinking because I knew it would sound controversial. Now that folks have had their say, and the responses were very good, I want to throw in my original thoughts and see how some of you feel about them. Maybe I am playing devil's advocate, or maybe it is just the way I see things through a veteran driver's lens. Anyhow, here are my thoughts...

First let me say that I am not a trainer. I have been put under all kinds of pressure to be one, but so far I have not gone down that path. So, my observation here is strictly that of a highly productive solo driver.

One of the hallmarks of being a productive driver is that you manage your clock well. Nobody wants to leave eight hours on their 70 while being forced to take a 34 hour break. That's like taking $250.00 off of your paycheck. The first thing that struck me as odd in this post was this statement...

we only had eight hours left on our 70s and I was dangerously fatigued my reaction time was down and I was swaying in my lane I had no business on the road.

The fact that they had eight hours left, and he still managed to legally drive all day, puts them fairly close to having just finished a ten hour break. Why is the driver so fatigued that he "had no business on the road?" Part of managing our driving hours is how we manage our resting hours. We have to make sure we are rested up. What happened in this situation? Why was the driver "dangerously fatigued?" I am not condemning anybody here, I am just curious. As a professional driver when my ten hour break is over, I am fresh and ready to turn some miles. John is in training, and I know how exhausting that can be, but surely ten hours should have done something beneficial for him. It just stood out to me as an oddity.

One of the first things we would typically ask a new driver who is complaining about low miles is... "How much of your 70 are you using up each week?" The answer to that question helps us evaluate the driver's efficiency at managing his time so that he is maximizing his levels of productivity. That efficiency is vital to a driver's success out here. The lack of it is the very reason for such disparity in driver's incomes.

What happened during that ten hour break? Something went wrong and the driver was not rested. I am more curious about that than the fudging around with the logs. Had there been some prior conversations between the trainer and the trainee about being careful about how much "on duty" time you burn up at shippers and receivers? Had their been any conversations about making sure you are resting well during your ten hour break? I have watched new drivers wasting a lot of time playing video games during their breaks. That is not a good way to achieve the needed rest required for this demanding career. I would just like to know why John was so fatigued. I would also like to know if his trainer has been talking to him about managing his time better.

I don't know why the trainer would go and alter his trainees logs. Maybe the trainer felt like his message wasn't getting through. We probably won't know the answers to these questions, but they sure came up in my mind as I read the complaint. Again, I don't condone the trainer's actions, but I am left with a curiosity that bothers me. I know if I were the trainer, I would want my student to see how it is not a good practice to leave eight hours on his seventy. It is just inefficient. Maximizing our driving hours is a very important part of the learning curve. I know I sure don't want to leave eight hours on the table. That is a considerable amount of money to forego on your paycheck.

All that aside, it is really important that we drive safely and well rested. It is also important that our logs reflect an accurate assessment of what we actually did during the day. I rarely show more than 30 consecutive minutes of "on duty" time at any point in my logs. Our hours should be utilized for driving. That is where we are productive. Our ten hour breaks should be devoted to resting. That is how we keep ourselves productive.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

John C.'s Comment
member avatar

The reason I said we had eight hours was because with his truck being governed at 60 because he gets an extra one cent per mile we did not have the time to complete that load. During this 70 hour period I was driving between 10 1/2 to 11 everyday because we were doing fedex critical loads and spending on duty time doing company training. My question was because I didn’t feel it was right nor legal to alter accurate work time because of his poor planning. Because I’m a new driver I can only go by what the company has taught us about our logs. And it seem to me that what he did was a violation of law because if we can edit our logs at anytime we want to get more hours driving then what’s the point they might as well drop it and go back to nothing. As to your comments about my 10 hour break I do sleep as much as I possibly can I did not go into the stuff that goes on in our truck such as him sitting there listening to music or rolling down the windows and essentially being an ass at all hours because it wasn’t relevant. Because my question was only about the logs him. And your comment about my fatigue, I spent two years in the middle east and another year in East Africa serving my nation I’m used to going 30 40 hrs. with maybe 2 to 3 hours sleep, so I know when my reaction time is off and I am not 100%. I didn’t know who you were since I just joined and I’ve looked at your past comments to other rookie posts and you need to come off your high horse. Because you act like you’re some immortal truck driving God This is supposed to be a group that is supportive of new drivers I wasn’t asking to being coddled I was asking a question because I was confused about my logs and I didn’t want to call safety or my fleet manager over something that is completely normal, or was it something that he was doing that could jeopardize my standing in the company or my CDL. But that’s just my two cents as you say.

One of the hallmarks of being a productive driver is that you manage your clock well. Nobody wants to leave eight hours on their 70 while being forced to take a 34 hour break. That's like taking $250.00 off of your paycheck. The first thing that struck me as odd in this post was this statement...

double-quotes-start.png

we only had eight hours left on our 70s and I was dangerously fatigued my reaction time was down and I was swaying in my lane I had no business on the road.

double-quotes-end.png

The fact that they had eight hours left, and he still managed to legally drive all day, puts them fairly close to having just finished a ten hour break. Why is the driver so fatigued that he "had no business on the road?" Part of managing our driving hours is how we manage our resting hours. We have to make sure we are rested up. What happened in this situation? Why was the driver "dangerously fatigued?" I am not condemning anybody here, I am just curious. As a professional driver when my ten hour break is over, I am fresh and ready to turn some miles. John is in training, and I know how exhausting that can be, but surely ten hours should have done something beneficial for him. It just stood out to me as an oddity.

One of the first things we would typically ask a new driver who is complaining about low miles is... "How much of your 70 are you using up each week?" The answer to that question helps us evaluate the driver's efficiency at managing his time so that he is maximizing his levels of productivity. That efficiency is vital to a driver's success out here. The lack of it is the very reason for such disparity in driver's incomes.

What happened during that ten hour break? Something went wrong and the driver was not rested. I am more curious about that than the fudging around with the logs. Had there been some prior conversations between the trainer and the trainee about being careful about how much "on duty" time you burn up at shippers and receivers? Had their been any conversations about making sure you are resting well during your ten hour break? I have watched new drivers wasting a lot of time playing video games during their breaks. That is not a good way to

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

Shipper:

The customer who is shipping the freight. This is where the driver will pick up a load and then deliver it to the receiver or consignee.

Fleet Manager:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.
Sid V.'s Comment
member avatar

Hi John,

Electronic logs are VERY hard to alter because they are tied into the vehicle's computer. Once any time is logged on the drive line, that time can not be taken off. Penalties for falsifying logs are very severe.

What you need to be doing in training is asking how he's getting you more drive time because when your out on the road by yourself you'll be looking for any available time to drive. I know it may sound like you shouldn't be altering your logs at all, but the reality of it is the rules have been set by the government and anything they let you change is legal for instance putting sleeper time on to the off duty line.

Learn what you can and can't do with the logs and don't be so combative.

Electronic Logs:

Electronic Onboard Recorder

Electronic Logbook

A device which records the amount of time a vehicle has been driven. If the vehicle is not being driven, the operator will manually input whether or not he/she is on duty or not.

PackRat's Comment
member avatar

You're going to be a real asset with your poor attitude on here, Rookie John C.

You come on here looking for assistance, then insult a long time driver that already has it figured out when he offers you sage advice?

Congratulations on your tours overseas. Only three? Big deal.

good-luck.gif

Page 1 of 3 Next Page Go To Page:

New Reply:

New! Check out our help videos for a better understanding of our forum features

Bold
Italic
Underline
Quote
Photo
Link
Smiley
Links On TruckingTruth


example: TruckingTruth Homepage



example: https://www.truckingtruth.com
Submit
Cancel
Upload New Photo
Please enter a caption of one sentence or less:

Click on any of the buttons below to insert a link to that section of TruckingTruth:

Getting Started In Trucking High Road Training Program Company-Sponsored Training Programs Apply For Company-Sponsored Training Truck Driver's Career Guide Choosing A School Choosing A Company Truck Driving Schools Truck Driving Jobs Apply For Truck Driving Jobs DOT Physical Drug Testing Items To Pack Pre-Hire Letters CDL Practice Tests Trucking Company Reviews Brett's Book Leasing A Truck Pre-Trip Inspection Learn The Logbook Rules Sleep Apnea
Done
Done

0 characters so far - 5,500 maximum allowed.
Submit Preview

Preview:

Submit
Cancel

This topic has the following tags:

Changing Careers Driver Responsibilities Electronic Logbooks Military Veterans In Trucking Time Management
Click on any of the buttons above to view topics with that tag, or you can view a list of all forum tags here.

Join Us!

We have an awesome set of tools that will help you understand the trucking industry and prepare for a great start to your trucking career. Not only that, but everything we offer here at TruckingTruth is 100% free - no strings attached! Sign up now and get instant access to our member's section:
High Road Training Program Logo
  • The High Road Training Program
  • The High Road Article Series
  • The Friendliest Trucker's Forum Ever!
  • Email Updates When New Articles Are Posted

Apply For Paid CDL Training Through TruckingTruth

Did you know you can fill out one quick form here on TruckingTruth and apply to several companies at once for paid CDL training? Seriously! The application only takes one minute. You will speak with recruiters today. There is no obligation whatsoever. Learn more and apply here:

Apply For Paid CDL Training

About Us

TruckingTruth was founded by Brett Aquila (that's me!), a 15 year truck driving veteran, in January 2007. After 15 years on the road I wanted to help people understand the trucking industry and everything that came with the career and lifestyle of an over the road trucker. We'll help you make the right choices and prepare for a great start to your trucking career.

Read More

Becoming A Truck Driver

Becoming A Truck Driver is a dream we've all pondered at some point in our lives. We've all wondered if the adventure and challenges of life on the open road would suit us better than the ordinary day to day lives we've always known. At TruckingTruth we'll help you decide if trucking is right for you and help you get your career off to a great start.

Learn More