Cameras In Tractors?

I was reading an earlier post about Swift putting cameras, both outward and inward facing, in their trucks. I was just wondering what they ended up doing.

As a retired LEO, I remember when they first put cameras in the squad cars. At first, they only put them in squads that had "problem" drivers. I remember early on I got called into the OIC's office and asked if my squad car had a camera (this was before they were digital. The camera recorded onto a VHS tape in the truck. The cameras were standalone and they could not be monitored and the OIC would not particularly know if you had one or not). Feeling kind of nervous, I said that yes, my squad did have a camera. Then he told me to switch squads with another officer who was being accused of profiling in his traffic stops. But eventually, all squads got cameras, not just the "bad" officers. These first cameras were not objected to too much. We figured that they only came on when you activated your emergency lights. We felt that protected us more than hurt us by recording (audio/video) what happened on a traffic stop. It saved us a number of times when the person accused us of doing something wrong.

BUT

Then they upgraded to digital real-time cameras. They were running from the time you turned your car on -- no getting around it. If you turned on your siren or emergency lights OR exceeded a certain speed limit OR exceeded an inertial threshhold, they would activate and start recording 60 seconds before the triggering event. That wasn't too bad, but did have some issues. When they first put that in my squad car, every time I hit a pothole, it would set off the inertia trigger and start recording. Then I would have to stop the recording, and make a log entry as to why the camera started recording -- a real pain in the butt until they finally fixed it. (And it did record my 110-120 mph chase through three counties one time -- that was fun actually...) One officer got called in because his squad car was recorded going 80-100 mph for an extended time. Turns out he was off-duty and the mechanic was having some fun so I guess he got talked to instead...

But the part about digital real-time cameras that we REALLY did not like was because the cameras were live all the time, supervisors could log on and see whatever the camera was seeing at any time. Now, the camera was supposed to beep when it started streaming video and alert you. At first, it did indeed beep. I would be parked or driving and the system would beep. I'd look down at the monitor and see that it was streaming. At first it was the technicians working on the system doing that (and i would hold up a little sign in from of the camera telling them hello). But later it was the admins doing it. They told this expensive system to the city council by saying it would allow them to see what was going on at the scene of a major event. Their idea was that squads at a major event would park facing whatever was going on with cameras rolling and it would live-stream into the command post.

But after a while we got used to the cameras and forgot all about them -- for the most part. I remember after they were first installed I had a hot call into a large apartment complex. I go blazing into the place only to find that ALL of the building numbers had been removed for painting. And of course, with cameras rolling and recording I let out a stress-induced string of words reflecting my feelings at the time. Like others has said about cameras though, with the exception of a few night shift bonehead supervisors, most sups were too busy doing other things to sit and watch what you were doing with your squad car.

However, our cameras were looking to the road and the back seat (to monitor people). They did not face the driver. They did record audio inside, but did not record the driver himself. That would be weird.

Sorry for digression and long post... All I was asking was if Swift ever installed cameras and if they face both the road AND the driver.

Thanks.

Yep, I'm one of those that does not want a camera facing me all day/night. I don't like it, I don't agree with it, and think that would be the one thing that would push me out of trucking

That would be the last straw, eh? Not the 10 years of work history they require, the constant stream of drug tests, DOT inspections, in-cab searches they can do anytime, logbook checks, fingerprinting and Federal background check for Hazmat , sensors streaming real-time information of every aspect of your truck's position & speed & performance day and night, the recording all of your conversations over Qualcomm , the 1,000+ cameras you're on everywhere you go every day of your life, and the million other things they're monitoring about you every second of your life? All of that was tolerable, but this is too much?

No it's not. You'll get used to it. It's probably coming for everyone at some point.

A lot of experienced drivers react the same way at first about automatic transmissions. They hate the idea, then they try em, then they like em. You may not like driver-facing cameras, unless they exonerate you at some point, but you aren't going to care after a short time. You're on camera all the time - everywhere you go - every day of your life. You also carry a picture camera, video camera, accelerometer, GPS chip, and microphone in your pocket or by your side every second of your life that can all be activated and monitored remotely.

So don't sweat it. It's going to feel weird at first but you'll get used to it. Just pretend you're a celebrity and wave to your fans once in awhile.

Yep, I'm one of those that does not want a camera facing me all day/night. I don't like it, I don't agree with it, and think that would be the one thing that would push me out of trucking

That would be the last straw, eh? Not the 10 years of work history they require, the constant stream of drug tests, DOT inspections, in-cab searches they can do anytime, logbook checks, fingerprinting and Federal background check for Hazmat , sensors streaming real-time information of every aspect of your truck's position & speed & performance day and night, the recording all of your conversations over Qualcomm , the 1,000+ cameras you're on everywhere you go every day of your life, and the million other things they're monitoring about you every second of your life? All of that was tolerable, but this is too much?

No it's not. You'll get used to it. It's probably coming for everyone at some point.

A lot of experienced drivers react the same way at first about automatic transmissions. They hate the idea, then they try em, then they like em. You may not like driver-facing cameras, unless they exonerate you at some point, but you aren't going to care after a short time. You're on camera all the time - everywhere you go - every day of your life. You also carry a picture camera, video camera, accelerometer, GPS chip, and microphone in your pocket or by your side every second of your life that can all be activated and monitored remotely.

So don't sweat it. It's going to feel weird at first but you'll get used to it. Just pretend you're a celebrity and wave to your fans once in awhile.

Brett- my O/O trainer at Prime was real proud of himself- eating when driving. I was permit student driver. He was a 100% neat-nik. I would put him up against any of the 5000 Prime drivers for a clean, neat, no dust or dirt whatsoever inside truck cab. He would be #1 or at least top 5 drivers with cleanest cab. Also he told me not to roll down window, but instead open door at toll both to pay. That way no scratches on window to keep it nice and help resale of truck.

Anyway what about eating when driving? Absolutely stupid, irresponsible, and dangerous? And arrogant? And stupid because he should set an example for the student driver?

A previous thread said a Swift driver was fired for eating a salad while driving and caught on camera.

While eating and driving at the same time, my Prime trainer would crouch forward and catch any food drops on paper towel. Therefore close to 100% clean and neat. Like I said he was a little proud of not spilling.

I did honestly respect him as a driver- 2 million accident free miles, and the night at 2am a 4-wheeler at interstate speed cut in front of us slamming his U-haul truck pulling a 2-wheel car Dolly with car loaded into our truck- My trainer immediately took shoulder with fully loader reefer avoiding crash. As a student, I was thrilled because he avoided crash but also because I was still getting used to feel of trailer, and very concerned about trailer tipping.

Also this would be a good question for a survey. 1 Do you eat while driving?- and how often- daily... Etc. 2 If you eat while driving- What is reason? (My trainer it would be to save time) 3 Is eating while driving an act of _______ (fill in blank) Stupidity? Total driver arrogance and irresponsible? Etc

So Brett, what about eating while driving??

A previous thread said a Swift driver was fired for eating a salad while driving and caught on camera

Out of curiosity, was this ever confirmed or was this just one of those "I heard one time a driver was fired for......." rumors?

So Brett, what about eating while driving??

Excellent question.

Well naturally anything you do that isn't driving is going to distract you from driving, so it's a concern at least and could be incredibly dangerous. Depends on what you're doing and how you're doing it. So eating and driving is definitely more dangerous than not eating and driving. That's safe to say. But the TruckingTruth research arm has looked into this and here's what we have right now......

Everyone is familiar with 392.80: Prohibition against texting:

Prohibition. No driver shall engage in texting while driving

...and 392.82: Using a hand-held mobile telephone:

(a)(1) No driver shall use a hand-held mobile telephone while driving a CMV

Those appear to be the only two specific activities that are written into the laws at the moment.

However, the FMCSA has a page called CMV Driving Tips - Driver Distraction and it states at the top:

Driver distraction is the diversion of attention from activities critical for safe driving to a competing activity

Ok so that's pretty clear. Any activity that competes with your attention driving is a distraction.

They go on to list several tips for distracted driving. Note #6 and the information that follows it:

• TIP #1: Do Not Let Objects Outside of Your Truck Distract You
• TIP #2: Do Not Text While Driving
• TIP #3: Do Not Use a Dispatching Device While Driving
• TIP #4: Do Not Dial a Handheld Phone While Driving
• TIP #5: Do Not Read, Write, or Use Paper Maps While Driving
• TIP #6: Avoid Eating and Drinking When Driving

Sometimes you may feel like driving is the only time you have to eat or drink. But you may not realize that eating while driving can be dangerous. Eating while driving can take your eyes off the road. It always takes at least one of your hands off the wheel. Always try to eat or drink before getting behind the wheel or leave time to pull over and eat.

Did You Know? A survey of all types of drivers found that 49 percent of drivers believed eating or drinking while driving could be a distraction.

Did You Know? A recent study found that eating while driving was riskier than talking on a cell phone.

So there is such a thing as "distracted driving" but the law at this point only specifies two activities - texting and using the phone without a hands-free device.

Could you get a ticket for distracted driving because an officer saw you eating? We're not sure. It's ambiguous at this point.

Could you get fired from your company for distracted driving because you were eating a sandwich? Yes, a company can fire you for any reason they like. Now would that reasoning hold up in a court of law if you sued that company for firing you without cause? Again we're not sure. It seems pretty ambiguous at this point.

We have a ton of information about distracted driving in our wiki and we're going to be adding a lot more to that page very soon.

Interestingly enough, I once was given a ticket for "too fast for conditions" in Kentucky for driving 50 mph on the Interstate while it was snowing. I was in complete control of the vehicle and could have safely gone considerably faster but was taking it easy because people in front of me were just easing along. Now I'm from Buffalo where we get more snow in June than Kentucky gets in a decade so I'm comfortable in it, Kentuckians are not.

I asked the officer when he said he was giving me a ticket, "How you can say I was driving too fast for conditions if I was in complete control of the vehicle and safely holding my lane? If I was sitting off in a corn field I would understand. But what evidence is there that I was driving too fast for conditions? I was 100% in control of the vehicle at all times and I was safely going down the road."

He said that it's a judgment call on his part and that I shouldn't be driving that fast when it was snowing. I explained I was from Buffalo and 50 mph is more than adequately safe for these conditions, but he disagreed. For him I'm sure it wouldn't have been as safe because he doesn't have the experience I do so snow probably scares the cr*p out of him.

Well turns out the judge sided with the officer. Apparently Kentuckians know more about what's safe to do in the snow than someone who grew up in it. And apparently even if you have a career-long safe driving record they know more about how you should be driving your vehicle than you do.

My point is that even if you aren't demonstrating any signs of erratic driving it's possible you could be ticketed or fired from your job for distracted driving because of something you were doing behind the wheel. So be aware of that.

Rayzer rants:

Who said we had to be doing anything that we don't want our boss to see? I just don't want a camera stuck in my face all day long while I'm working. If they can't figure out what happened with witness statements, nearby cameras (freeway, businesses, etc.), my forward facing camera, the ECM, and whatever else they have at their disposal, then they (the investigators) should probably look for another line of work.

The all-powerful player here is the insurance companies. They don't want to go digging around for evidence when a simple installed camera get-up will answer all their questions. If they say "cameras!" the truck companies will answer "Color or black/white?" And the cameras are about as intrusive at the Pre-pass on the windshield.

Not to worry about watching you change your underwear - they only record & store those 10 seconds before & after an "event".

The following link to a YouTube video shows what this camera can see. Although it is a day cab , I'm pretty sure they don't make one camera just for day cabs and one for OTR cabs. I guess anyone into voyeurism might not mind this intrusion, but I do and hope I never have to deal with this before I retire. For some reason I couldn't get this link to work with the Link button above, but here is the full link if you are interested.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?t=20&v=EvsTl8B0lxI

I don't know, maybe I'm wrong about this whole driver facing camera deal and just making a mountain out of a molehill. But, to me It just seems like a slap in the face after 20 years of driving without so much as an overweight ticket and I've only been involved in two non-preventable minor accidents that were not my fault and I was never cited for in any way. One, a kid rear-ended me while sitting still in a traffic jam (he wasn't hurt, but was cited), and the second was a guy who spun out during a snowstorm while we were doing approximately 30 mph and he hit me (again, he wasn't hurt, but was cited). I take great pride in closing in on three million accident free miles, especially while a large portion of my career has been spent driving in the northeast and all without the help of a camera stuck in my face.

I think, other than the privacy issue, the next biggest issue I have with driver facing camera's is the blatant discrimination of only putting them in trucks. Why not cars, or at the very least ALL problem drivers that are habitual offenders, i.e. drunk drivers, reckless drivers, etc? Oh yeah, because the entire country would go insane and start a nationwide riot because they would claim privacy issues. The ACLU would be up in arms. Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton would find some reason to object and the list goes on and on. However, since it's just a bunch of truck drivers nobody cares and we will just sit back and let it happen like everything else that has had an impact on our industry.

One other thought before I quit my "rant". How many of you that have no problems with these driver facing cameras also have no problem with either not receiving detention or only getting $10-$12 per hour after 2-3 hours? Have any of you ever thought that if we were paid by the hour instead of by the mile that drivers might not feel the need to rush around taking unnecessary risks dodging in and out of traffic, running yellow lights, etc., while driving and that the cameras might not even be necessary?

You are ALWAYS going to have that select few that need to have their every move scrutinized, but I just don't think the majority should have to pay the price for those few. I would much rather see technology implemented into EVERY vehicle that would jam cellular signals unless you were dialing 911.

My Swift tractor has a camera facing me and the road. They began installing these in the existing fleet several months ago. All of the new trucks in my terminal have them.

As Dr. Phil would ask, "How does that make you feel?"

As Dr. Phil would ask, "How does that make you feel?"

Does not bother me or inhibit me from doing my job. Most of the time I don't even notice it. Since I spend the majority of my driving time dealing with urban traffic in the Northeaster US, I am glad it has a road facing component.

Sorry for digression and long post... All I was asking was if Swift ever installed cameras and if they face both the road AND the driver.

The long digression is fine, Dave. It lets the newbies know the camera thing isn't new. (And they may not know what VHS means :) - I'll leave that mystery alone)

Swift has thousands of trucks, and they are installing them by category. These cameras watch both out front and driver continuously but only keeps the previous 10 seconds in memory. LEO has different requirements.

Officially the cameras are to protect both the driver and company from lawsuits. ("The driver was not paying attention. Yes I was. No you weren't" sort of thing.) But the other edge of the sword is if the driver was not following procedures, that's his hiney, not the company so much.

My company has them, and yes if you have been doing something you shouldn't like texting or falling asleep and then you have an "incident" your screwed. However, when that 4 wheeler cuts you off and slams on the brakes and you have no stopping distance now, that camera just saved your a$$. They record 15 seconds prior to the "incident" and 15 seconds after and no they can't just turn it on you and watch you. You'll know when it's recording and "uploading" an incident. They are set off when the truck experiences any sudden movements like a swerve, or hard braking, or fast acceleration, basically anything that moves the sensor (think it's a little pendulum) and then the 30 second record using cell signal is uploaded to your company's safety manager. I've seen some videos and even when there's no actual "accident" but product has been damaged due ex ordinary measures to avoid an idiot 4 wheeler, the camera recorded or the drive hit the button and recorded the license plate of that 4 wheeler and sued their insurance carrier for the damaged product they caused in the box. The driver is exonerated because of the camera. I welcome it and want it in my truck, just don't be doing the wrong thing like playing with your phone when you run over someone ;)

They are set off when the truck experiences any sudden movements like a swerve, or hard braking, or fast acceleration, basically anything that moves the sensor (think its a little pendulum) and then the 30 second record using cell signal is uploaded to your companies safety manager.

...poorly maintained roads, potholes, or bumpy construction zones can also set them off.

G-town points out:

...poorly maintained roads, potholes, or bumpy construction zones can also set them off.

That's why the uploaded recordings are first reviewed - cuts out the needless chatter from really non-events.

Knight is installing them too

We had a discussion about this not too long ago. It got pretty intense. Some folks just don't mind it while others refuse to work for a carrier that uses them. They see it as an invasion of their personal space. To each his own. I personally have my own dash cam because it's the smartest investment you can make.

Now as far as this VHS thing goes. I have no clue what that even is so I can't help you with that. Errol was around back when Ox carrages were the main transportation so I'm sure he can help you with any ancient technology like the VHS.