Fired For Accident And Not Sure What To Do.

Thank you g town! I was starting to wonder if this was another "Todd" post... It like a train wreck. You know you should watch it, but goldurn it, it's just riveting...

I don't come here often but boy am I glad I stumbled upon this. An absolute gem!

Did you see a doctor??? You keep spouting fatigue but do you realize those symptoms apply to depression, ADD, anema, temporal lobe epilepsy, low blood circulation and probably a dozen other conditions???

Which is why I say fatigue is hard to identify.

People think im crazy for doing a lot of 8/2 splits but i learned early on that they help me when i need the extra rest. Driving 300 miles the taking a nap helps.me, but i learned that. I paid attention. You dont sound to be in tune with your body.

Truckers Sleep: A Rare Commodity

It amazes me you did a ton of research to try to get out of the preventable, but you never researched trucker sleep. You blame a company for not providing information and training on fatigue.

Do you realize dispatch can't tell if you are tired, sick, fatigued etc unless you tell them? they are not mind readers. But you didn't know, so how can you blame them for not knowing?

Also...i take issue with the idea there is only one safe company out there. Mine is extremely safety conscious....but you arent. My company has a safety meeting every Friday that is simulcast to the terminals and our phone apps. We have the cell number to the owner of the company who is there every day and visible for comments and concerns. If i say the truck or traiker needs a repair it gets done ASAP. If i say im tired i get loaded later. So stop blaming "less than safe" companies for your inattention.

Good luck and get tested. i think there is a lot.more going on than "fatigue".

A schedule that allows you to take naps during the day is a luxury reserved for OTR drivers, but I was local. There was no flexibility in scheduling at my job.

Dispatch may not be able to directly tell if drivers are fatigued, but they should be able to predict that requiring someone to stay awake for 18 hours straight followed by minimal rest time isn't likely to be safe.

"Know your limits" sounds like good advice, but it's not if it isn't coupled with advice on how to determine what your limits are. I already acknowledged that I was aware of the potential for a problem to develop, and therefore I bear responsibility for not doing something about it. But I thought that I would necessarily feel noticeably tired if it were unsafe for me to drive, a notion that was based on misinformation provided by the company.

The reason I say more training should be provided is that it would help prevent accidents in general. If the company has a stated goal of preventing accidents, and the responsibility for avoiding accidents falls primarily on the drivers, the company should at least teach drivers what they need to know.

I think your whole outlook is baloney. You rear ended someone, because you were following too close and possibly speeding also period. You say you weren't sleepy, so just get over it and admit it was all on you. Oooh. 55 hours a week? We work 70 hours a week much of the time.

No sympathy from me, and with your attitude, I'm glad I won't be sharing the roads with you behind the wheel of an 80,000 pound death machine.

The "55 hours a week" is only the time that was actually logged on duty. The company required me to work off the clock illegally, and also commute daily. The total time I was required to be awake was between 85 and 90 hours. Even if the daily commute is removed from that figure, the company was still requiring me to falsify my logs to make it look like I wasn't violating the 70 hour rule, which exists for good reason. I suppose I still won't "get any sympathy", seeing how everyone in this industry is always trying rationalize breaking the law in the name of profit.

every local driver at the company experienced the same problems I did and had about equal risk of causing a similar collision

So if they all have the same risk, how come only you had the accident? Did you notice you just stated the driver aka you caused the collision? Does fatigue some how flash a neon sign on all the drivers foreheads except yours?

Did you ask the other drivers how they deal with it? Does it resonate now why inexperience drivers should not start out in high paced, high stressed local gigs just to get more hometime?

I don't know that the others didn't have accidents. Actually, the company sent out a message saying that they were having a record number of "following distance" incidents, so they probably were. They were always guzzling coffee because the potential for fatigue was obvious, but I never did that because I knew it wouldn't address the underlying cause, which was poor scheduling.

I did not accept the local job "just to get more home time". My reference to home time was describing a different position at the company that I never held, and I actually got less home time with the local job. The reasons I accepted were higher pay and prescheduled days off.

If rookies shouldn't do local jobs, wasn't the company negligent by hiring me?

I just started orientation yesterday and for a company that requires a minimum of 1 year experience for some drivers and 2 years for most. I am the least experienced driver in my class with one year experience. Several have 3-5 years, and one of the drivers has about 15 years.

I say all that to say this... today we watched many safety videos much like yesterday. I immediately thought of this post when, in one of the videos, sleep deprivation and fatigue were covered extensively. It was part of a distracted driving video. We had a conversation about it and even took a quiz. We then reviewed said quiz. Did your company maybe do something to this effect and you just don't remember because it was over a year ago?

I highly doubt the company you previously worked for, is any less or more safe then the company I am going to work for and vice-versa.

Oh and the last company I worked for had almost an identical orientation with the same videos. They too were highly safety oriented.

No, I'm certain the company did not do this. The only classroom instruction was describing the company's expectations, hazmat certification, and pre-trip video. They were more focused on road driving, pre-trip, and backing exercises. The topic of fatigue came up only once, in a brief conversation with my road trainer that I already described.

I am glad to hear my perception of other companies as being unsafe is wrong.

The company required me to work off the clock illegally

No, they didn't. They said you could log off duty when you're at the docks because you're relieved of duty. You're not doing anything. If you were inside counting freight or loading freight, that would be on duty not driving, and you could still drive 11 hours in a 14 hour period even with some on duty time.

Stop trying to bullsh*t us. We've been at this for a very long time. We know the job, we know the laws, and we also know the tactics that guys like you try to use to deflect the blame off of yourself and onto others who are innocent. Your company was 0% to blame, you were 100% to blame. There is no gray area here.

If rookies shouldn't do local jobs, wasn't the company negligent by hiring me?

Believe me, knowing what they know about you now they certainly wouldn't hire you, as they've stated, and neither would anyone else. You were given a fair chance just like everyone else, and you screwed up. It's a shame, but that's the reality of it.

Besides, didn't you say you started driving in Feb, 2017?

I started company training in February 2017 and became a solo OTR driver the next month

So you're not a rookie anymore. See how totally disingenuous you are? You'll try to bullsh*t anyone about anything.

A schedule that allows you to take naps during the day is a luxury reserved for OTR drivers

Yeah, and getting to go home and sleep in your own bed every night is a luxury you had and OTR drivers do not. Now who do you think should sleep better, someone stuffed into a tiny bed in a walk-in closet in a parking lot with the engine running or a guy in his own quiet home in his big, luxury bed?

"Know your limits" sounds like good advice, but it's not if it isn't coupled with advice on how to determine what your limits are.

This is the epitome of this new generation and their complete lack of culpability. You don't even think it should be your responsibility to determine whether or not you're safe to drive. You think even that should be someone else's responsibility.

Like I've said, if you think the requirements of this job are too much then I can respect that. I already know most people can't handle this job. It's an extraordinary job for extraordinary people. It's also a job that puts the lives of innocent people in your hands. That's a massive responsibility, and it's clear to me that you don't have the character to shoulder that level of responsibility. You won't accept responsibility for yourself, so you damn sure shouldn't be accepting the responsibility for the lives of others.

I'm not trying to be a smartass in saying what I'm about to say. I'm being genuine. Why don't you just get a desk job and leave this kind of work to those of us who thrive in a position like this? You're clearly not cut out for it.

they should be able to predict that requiring someone to stay awake for 18 hours straight followed by minimal rest time isn't likely to be safe.

That's on you. You knowingly violated HOS. You're given 10 hours off it's up to you to use it to be fit for duty. Not sure how long your commute is but maybe you need to find something close to home. I too am a local driver. On the 5 days a week i work many times I'm off just enough for my 10 hour break. In that time I have to commute (15 miles one way), shower, eat, sleep and try to play with the kids. Your company can not force you to violate HOS and if they try to it's your RESPONSIBILITY to report them to the DOT. What did they have you doing "off duty"? OTR drivers log their loading and unloading time as off duty.

I really don't understand the direction the world is going in with the way they teach young people to think. I guess every generation feels that way. The idea that nothing is ever your fault and everyone's a winner no matter how you perform. Where do the people that teach this stuff think it's going to lead? Do they think it's going to somehow lead to happier, healthier people and a better society?

Will these people be able to endure the hardships that life throws at all of us when they've been sheltered from hardship? Will they be able to do the critical self-analysis needed to improve oneself and grow as a human being when they're taught they're never wrong and nothing is ever their fault?

I think this conversation shows the stark contrast between us older folks and the new way of thinking these younger folks have. When we screwed up we were taught to own it, take full responsibility, suffer the consequences, learn from it, and get better. Now they're taught to find a scapegoat, point the finger at innocent people, and never feel bad for what you've done.

Crazy.

So, if you represent "your generation", how is your post not an attempt to avoid responsibility, as you are accusing me of? Young people had to learn the so-called "new way of thinking" from observing older people. "Your" generation that you're proud to be a part of set a bad example, but younger people should have been expected to recognize that you were poor teachers, so now it's their fault that you perceive them unfavorably?

I actually don't see how your stereotype is even relevant. You already convinced me that the accident itself was completely my fault and preventable. There's no disputing that. The rest of my posts were an attempt to explain, not rationalize, my reasoning for what I said and did. I also pointed out some common misconceptions about fatigue to educate others. My comments seem to have been interpreted as trying to deflect blame, which I admittedly did at first, but was no longer my intent after you all pointed out my errors in doing so. At this point, I'm not sure what else you expect me to say.

I believe that the company's actions CONTRIBUTED TO, but did not DIRECTLY CAUSE the crash. Valuing personal responsibility is good, but it seems your values are so deeply held that you're too willing to accept 100% of the blame no matter what happens. The company intentionally put me in a dangerous position, knowing that a safer course of action existed. They should "learn from this experience" as well. If they pretend not to understand all the factors that contribute to crashes, how can they say they are truly making an effort to be the safest company?

Most of you seem rather proud of "being able to manage" job stress, long hours, and sometimes erratic schedules. Admit it, all of you have driven while fatigued to some extent at some point. Trucking is so demanding, I don't see how it's possible not to be. You're bound to make a mistake at some point. Pointing out that external factors such as fatigue do influence behavior is not "redirecting blame".

You're right that I don't belong in trucking and I should get another job. So, that is what I will do. This will be my last post here.

Thank you for your time.

Thanks Brett, It is very refreshing to see you lay it straight out to this driver for not accepting the blame for his actions. Evidently he does not and will understand that it was his fault and no one else's. If he is unwilling to accept his mistake and move on and maybe become a better driver it is obvious that he will never make it in this industry. I also want to express Kudo's to every moderator and person who tried to make this driver understand his error without his accepting his responsibility. Great job to all.