DUI/Intoxalock (only Curious)

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Rob T.'s Comment
member avatar

Let me start by saying im only curious about it, not dealing with it and never drive even a POV after any alcohol and dont drink the day before I go back to work. With most states requiring Intoxalock after even your first DUI , would a driver be required to also have it in the big rig? This is assuming your license isnt suspended, and you're lucky enough to find someone to hire you with a recent DUI, and install the device (if necessary).

DUI:

Driving Under the Influence

Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar

Let me start by saying im only curious about it, not dealing with it and never drive even a POV after any alcohol and dont drink the day before I go back to work. With most states requiring Intoxalock after even your first DUI , would a driver be required to also have it in the big rig? This is assuming your license isnt suspended, and you're lucky enough to find someone to hire you with a recent DUI, and install the device (if necessary).

It gets somewhat weird nowadays - with states doing "diversion programs" for first-time DUI's in a non-CMV (to avoid an actual conviction). Technically - a DUI conviction results in 1 year CDL suspension (regardless of whether or not your regular operators license is suspended). 2nd dui conviction is a lifetime revocation. FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS of CDL suspensions override any diversion program so legally your CDL MUST BE SUSPENDED - even if they let you actually drive a car with an interlock device.

I'm actually surprised this hasn't turned into a 3 page PILE ON with board members laughing at even the notion of operating a rig with an interlock.

You'd NEVER GET INSURED, even if you got hired - and assuming you even got a company to let you drive - the notion of getting them to put an interlock in one of their vehicles and subject the company to the enhanced scrutiny. I believe, from the small amount of research I've done so far, you CAN NOT INSTALL an interlock in a CMV.

Here's some information from a Colorado DUI attorney. Because Federal Law does override state law on CDL Licenses - this is probably going to be universal.

Something to note from that site. If your CDL gets suspended for a year (which it will), but you have to use an interlock for 2 years - effectively, your CDL is suspended for 2 years because you (apparently) cannot install an interlock device in a CMV.

If you get a DUI - even with a diversion - you can kiss a CDL job goodbye for at least 3 years - maybe longer.

Moral(s) of the story? DON'T EVER GET A DUI. FIGHT EVERY CITATION WITH AN ATTORNEY. Refusal to submit is the same as a DUI and gets you an automatic suspension in EVERY STATE, and a CDL suspension for a year (10 years with equals a lifetime for the second one).

Rick

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

CMV:

Commercial Motor Vehicle

A CMV is a vehicle that is used as part of a business, is involved in interstate commerce, and may fit any of these descriptions:

  • Weighs 10,001 pounds or more
  • Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more
  • Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) not for compensation
  • Is designed or used to transport 9 or more passengers (including the driver) for compensation
  • Is transporting hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placards

BMI:

Body mass index (BMI)

BMI is a formula that uses weight and height to estimate body fat. For most people, BMI provides a reasonable estimate of body fat. The BMI's biggest weakness is that it doesn't consider individual factors such as bone or muscle mass. BMI may:

  • Underestimate body fat for older adults or other people with low muscle mass
  • Overestimate body fat for people who are very muscular and physically fit

It's quite common, especially for men, to fall into the "overweight" category if you happen to be stronger than average. If you're pretty strong but in good shape then pay no attention.

DUI:

Driving Under the Influence

Rob T.'s Comment
member avatar
I'm actually surprised this hasn't turned into a 3 page PILE ON with board members laughing at even the notion of operating a rig with an interlock.

The thought crossed my mind while sitting at a truck stop and seeing a driver vaping, after walking past empty beer cans all over the lot. Thank you for that info, I'm sure it'd take a real shady company to hire a driver with that recent of a DUI as the insurance cost is likely to be astronomical so I'd guess its likely insurance is unaware the driver is employed there.

DUI:

Driving Under the Influence

Marc Lee's Comment
member avatar

double-quotes-start.png

Let me start by saying im only curious about it, not dealing with it and never drive even a POV after any alcohol and dont drink the day before I go back to work. With most states requiring Intoxalock after even your first DUI , would a driver be required to also have it in the big rig? This is assuming your license isnt suspended, and you're lucky enough to find someone to hire you with a recent DUI, and install the device (if necessary).

double-quotes-end.png

It gets somewhat weird nowadays - with states doing "diversion programs" for first-time DUI's in a non-CMV (to avoid an actual conviction). Technically - a DUI conviction results in 1 year CDL suspension (regardless of whether or not your regular operators license is suspended). 2nd dui conviction is a lifetime revocation. FEDERAL REQUIREMENTS of CDL suspensions override any diversion program so legally your CDL MUST BE SUSPENDED - even if they let you actually drive a car with an interlock device.

I'm actually surprised this hasn't turned into a 3 page PILE ON with board members laughing at even the notion of operating a rig with an interlock.

You'd NEVER GET INSURED, even if you got hired - and assuming you even got a company to let you drive - the notion of getting them to put an interlock in one of their vehicles and subject the company to the enhanced scrutiny. I believe, from the small amount of research I've done so far, you CAN NOT INSTALL an interlock in a CMV.

Here's some information from a Colorado DUI attorney. Because Federal Law does override state law on CDL Licenses - this is probably going to be universal.

Something to note from that site. If your CDL gets suspended for a year (which it will), but you have to use an interlock for 2 years - effectively, your CDL is suspended for 2 years because you (apparently) cannot install an interlock device in a CMV.

If you get a DUI - even with a diversion - you can kiss a CDL job goodbye for at least 3 years - maybe longer.

Moral(s) of the story? DON'T EVER GET A DUI. FIGHT EVERY CITATION WITH AN ATTORNEY. Refusal to submit is the same as a DUI and gets you an automatic suspension in EVERY STATE, and a CDL suspension for a year (10 years with equals a lifetime for the second one).

Rick

Thanks Rick. Good info, as always!

Not looking to hijack this thread and somewhat related... always wondered about "informed consent" and DUI testing. As someone who has been "clean and sober" for several decades I have no problem with testing (in drug rehab we often had to do urine drops with the door ajar and, usually a female observer looking on)...

Not a fan of "field sobriety" tests. While I would never refuse any sort of test, if ever asked to do any sort of sobriety test, I am inclined to want to say... "Officer, I have been clean and sober since March 1st, 1985. I am not a fan of field sobriety and other such tests. Can we just do a blood test and call it a day?" Any idea how that conversation would go over? (Guessing LEO wants to do his thing his/her way and not be told what to do by me). But when I have to be tested for alcohol and other drugs I like to say "if it doesn't come up clean, they need to recalibrate the machine and test it again!" TMI???

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

CMV:

Commercial Motor Vehicle

A CMV is a vehicle that is used as part of a business, is involved in interstate commerce, and may fit any of these descriptions:

  • Weighs 10,001 pounds or more
  • Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more
  • Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) not for compensation
  • Is designed or used to transport 9 or more passengers (including the driver) for compensation
  • Is transporting hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placards

BMI:

Body mass index (BMI)

BMI is a formula that uses weight and height to estimate body fat. For most people, BMI provides a reasonable estimate of body fat. The BMI's biggest weakness is that it doesn't consider individual factors such as bone or muscle mass. BMI may:

  • Underestimate body fat for older adults or other people with low muscle mass
  • Overestimate body fat for people who are very muscular and physically fit

It's quite common, especially for men, to fall into the "overweight" category if you happen to be stronger than average. If you're pretty strong but in good shape then pay no attention.

DUI:

Driving Under the Influence

Rick S.'s Comment
member avatar

Thanks Rick. Good info, as always!

Not looking to hijack this thread and somewhat related... always wondered about "informed consent" and DUI testing. As someone who has been "clean and sober" for several decades I have no problem with testing (in drug rehab we often had to do urine drops with the door ajar and, usually a female observer looking on)...

Not a fan of "field sobriety" tests. While I would never refuse any sort of test, if ever asked to do any sort of sobriety test, I am inclined to want to say... "Officer, I have been clean and sober since March 1st, 1985. I am not a fan of field sobriety and other such tests. Can we just do a blood test and call it a day?" Any idea how that conversation would go over? (Guessing LEO wants to do his thing his/her way and not be told what to do by me). But when I have to be tested for alcohol and other drugs I like to say "if it doesn't come up clean, they need to recalibrate the machine and test it again!" TMI???

I go around a few times and make multiple passes on DUI checkpoints just for laughs. Have you been drinking sir? No. When was the last time you had a drink? December 6th 2000. NEXT!

It's actually called IMPLIED CONSENT. ALL STATES HAVE IT. When you sign for your license - you are giving "implied consent". Refusal to submit is an automatic suspension. The cops WILL CHARGE DUI also, but it becomes more difficult to prove, absent breathalyzer, Field Sobriety Exercises on video (and I've watched some really funny ones at an attorney friends office) or blood work. In the case of an accident with serious injuries or death, you can be COMPELLED to take a test - and obviously, the longer you can delay them, the lower your BAC will be. Some states require a WARRANT to compel - others do not (part of implied consent). There's been some challenges in the courtroom about being held down and forced to test.

RESISTING TESTING is kind of silly - especially if you've been sober for quite awhile. If you ARE LOADED in a POV - refuse to test and take the suspension, and hope you can beat the DUI in court. In a CMV , they will likely HAUL YOU IN AND FORCE A TEST if you are obviously impaired. Likewise for REQUIRED TESTING in a "DOT Reportable Accident" (injuries that have to be removed by EMT from the scene, vehicles that have to be towed from the scene. If you're not loaded, cooperate and test immediately. If you are - you're pretty much screwed any way you slice it.

INFORMED CONSENT - is something you sign before a medical procedure, indicating you've discussed the procedure, the risks, benefits and you consent to the procedure based on having been informed of the facts.

With a CDL - refusal is the same as a DUI (likewise - refusal to submit to drug screening is considered a positive). Also - the threshold for DUI in a CMV is .04 (as opposed to a .08 for POV's) and ANY PRESENCE (even a .02) will put you OOS.

The thought crossed my mind while sitting at a truck stop and seeing a driver vaping, after walking past empty beer cans all over the lot.

I had a friend who was a popular blogger years back - who would sit on get loaded in a hotel room during his 10. Used to pick him up at the local TS when he was in town and we'd go to dinner and hang out - and he could TIE ONE ON, and get behind the wheel after his 10 was up. Wouldn't suggest that for anyone - but he got away with it somehow. Funny - just thinking about him, I picked up the phone and called him. He's been off the road for 8 years, has his MBA, married and living in phoenix doing distribution logistics.

Rick

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

DOT:

Department Of Transportation

A department of the federal executive branch responsible for the national highways and for railroad and airline safety. It also manages Amtrak, the national railroad system, and the Coast Guard.

State and Federal DOT Officers are responsible for commercial vehicle enforcement. "The truck police" you could call them.

CMV:

Commercial Motor Vehicle

A CMV is a vehicle that is used as part of a business, is involved in interstate commerce, and may fit any of these descriptions:

  • Weighs 10,001 pounds or more
  • Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more
  • Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) not for compensation
  • Is designed or used to transport 9 or more passengers (including the driver) for compensation
  • Is transporting hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placards

BMI:

Body mass index (BMI)

BMI is a formula that uses weight and height to estimate body fat. For most people, BMI provides a reasonable estimate of body fat. The BMI's biggest weakness is that it doesn't consider individual factors such as bone or muscle mass. BMI may:

  • Underestimate body fat for older adults or other people with low muscle mass
  • Overestimate body fat for people who are very muscular and physically fit

It's quite common, especially for men, to fall into the "overweight" category if you happen to be stronger than average. If you're pretty strong but in good shape then pay no attention.

DUI:

Driving Under the Influence

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Army 's Comment
member avatar

Rob T

I had a troop that got a DUI and had the device in his car. Well the court order said he was not able to drive another vehicle unless it also had the device. Well he got another dui/accident in his wife’s truck. Well he violated the conditions set previously by the judge. So from what I know, it’s case specific, but I generally think, if you are required to have one, you can’t drive vehicles without it. And by the way, I believe he paid about 250 a month for the device and the monitoring. He kept having to get it extended because (false positives) as he described it lol.

Safe travel Chris

DUI:

Driving Under the Influence

RealDiehl's Comment
member avatar

Related:

I believe New Jersey is the only state that the breathing device is not an option. Nor will they allow you to drive a vehicle to commute to your job. You are pretty much screwed. For as long as the suspension lasts.

Marc Lee's Comment
member avatar

Thanks Rick. Yeah... meant IMPLIED consent.

So again... I would NEVER refuse any test. Just figure blood is most accurate and I don't have a problem giving it. I believe lots of things could cause someone to appear intoxicated including fatigue, sleep deprivation, illness, low blood sugar, etc..

Really my question is can requesting a more accurate test immediately be construed as a refusal to take the less accurate test?

PJ's Comment
member avatar

Marc the short answer to your question is no. FST’s are not required under the law. Implied consent only applies to chemical tests.

In my former life I had to deal with this a few times. An officer needs reasonable suspicion to ask a driver to do fst’s in the first place. The performance on those then lead to probable cause.

I always always always stressed to my officers make sure you have reasonable suspicion and probable cause in the correct sequence order. Not that the driver committed the offense of Contempt of cop. Most agencies have portable breath testers in the field these days. Those also are only legally viewed as an fst and does not conform to a legal chemical test under implied consent.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Marc Lee's Comment
member avatar

Marc the short answer to your question is no. FST’s are not required under the law. Implied consent only applies to chemical tests.

In my former life I had to deal with this a few times. An officer needs reasonable suspicion to ask a driver to do fst’s in the first place. The performance on those then lead to probable cause.

I always always always stressed to my officers make sure you have reasonable suspicion and probable cause in the correct sequence order. Not that the driver committed the offense of Contempt of cop. Most agencies have portable breath testers in the field these days. Those also are only legally viewed as an fst and does not conform to a legal chemical test under implied consent.

Thanks PJ! (And Hi there!) Good points!

I have nearly memorized and ALWAYS carry the following, as provided on a durable wallet card by the PI and Biker Rights law firm of Hupy & Abraham:

STATEMENT OF CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS:

Officer, I mean no disrespect, but I understand my rights. I have the right to have an attorney present during questioning. I have a right to refuse to consent to any search of my body, and personal effects. I wish to exercise all my rights. If I am under arrest I wish to invoke and exercise my Miranda rights and be allowed the opportunity to obtain the advice of my attorney. If I am to be taken into custody I request a reasonable opportunity to make arrangements to secure my own property. I do not consent to any impoundment of my property. If I am not under arrest, I want to leave. If I am free to leave, please tell me immediately so that I may go about my business.

Wonder which, if any part(s) of this may need to be modified when driving a company-owned CMV...

Thinking the only thing would be MY Personal Property vs. my employer's property, the load, etc..

CMV:

Commercial Motor Vehicle

A CMV is a vehicle that is used as part of a business, is involved in interstate commerce, and may fit any of these descriptions:

  • Weighs 10,001 pounds or more
  • Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more
  • Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) not for compensation
  • Is designed or used to transport 9 or more passengers (including the driver) for compensation
  • Is transporting hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placards

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

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