Many Red Light Cameras In IL Down Or Coming Down!

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Marc Lee's Comment
member avatar

I agree with what Brett is saying. I've lived in Illinois my entire life and remember life before the cameras, and after. Not sure if the rules are the same everywhere but here in Illinois you have to have your front axle over or on the white line by the time the light turns red. And when turning right on red have to come to a full, complete stop before continuing. All it really did was in the beginning make for some good revenue because people either didn't quite understand the rules or choose to ignore them until they got that 110 dollar ticket in the mail. I don't think they increased accidents or really decreased them either because for me personally I rarely ever saw people blowing through red lights to begin with. The IHSA however did do a study and said accidents decreased by as much as 30 percent in some areas.

The city of Chicago though did get sued and it was founded that some lights were rigged so that it would change from yellow to red in about 2 seconds flat. So saying that they are there to generate revenue is probably also a valid argument.

Turtle Protege you are correct! And let's not forget what increasing following distance often does - it creates a gap into which one or more vehicles will move, often DEcreasing the stopping "gap". Not saying not to do it... just saying it doesn't always solve the problem and again, can actually make it worse!

As for revenue... it is much worse than you might think. Illinois is broke and commits felonies to raise money. When they learned there was a "margin of error" of like .04 seconds they decided to send everyone a ticket if they were within the margin! They reasoned if there is a .04 second (or whatever it really is) margin of error in the system someone who wasn't (apparently) guilty COULD HAVE BEEN GUILTY OF A VIOLATION so let's send all of them tickets too! wtf.gif

That was the start of (or full on assault anyway) of the serious legal challenges. They lost in court every time. Process was ruled illegal but they continued. The 25% who went to court got their tickets dismissed - the rest paid.

The Village of Lakemoor which had the most desirable retail development intersection for a decade or more (the intersection of US-12 and US-120) got cameras. Paid for EVERYTHING! New police building, cars, Village Hall. Intersection now has a nice Woodman's. Great selection (including Vegan and healthy options), cheap gas and more. Lakemoor even lowered property taxes.

Those cameras are now down thanks to an attorney who warned them - then started suing them EVERY DAY! He won! They lost. But IL gives them time to pay!

Remember, in IL DEAD PEOPLE VOTE! The slogan here is "Vote early and vote often!"

smile.gif

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

Marc Lee's Comment
member avatar

Oh, one more thing... red light cameras are only legal in IL if they increase safety!

A camera setup to generate $ which does not improve safety is illegal by definition - and that covers a lot of them!

I got a couple nice photos of myself in my then new 2008 Scion xB! Crystal Lake put up a new camera and was in the test period. At night, in the rain, downhill, close to speed limit, short yellow light. OK, technically I guess I was driving too fast for conditions (approximately speed of traffic, below speed limit). Would have taken the ticket (if issued) every time over stopping!

shocked.png

Old School's Comment
member avatar
let's not forget what increasing following distance often does - it creates a gap into which one or more vehicles will move, often DEcreasing the stopping "gap". Not saying not to do it... just saying it doesn't always solve the problem and again, can actually make it worse!

Marc, you have to drive your vehicle. You can't keep less following distance in order to force others from getting in the space ahead of you. When they do, you increase your following distance again. The only thing that makes the situation worse is when we try to control the other traffic by keeping less space.

You may find it frustrating when people enter that space, but you are still the one responsible for a safe following distance. You can't define it by whether someone can enter it or not. It's defined by the speed you're traveling and the physics required for you to stop your vehicle at that given speed. This is most critical in a commercial vehicle, and one of the most important practices to keeping you from an accident.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Rob. D.'s Comment
member avatar

double-quotes-start.png

I agree with what Brett is saying. I've lived in Illinois my entire life and remember life before the cameras, and after. Not sure if the rules are the same everywhere but here in Illinois you have to have your front axle over or on the white line by the time the light turns red. And when turning right on red have to come to a full, complete stop before continuing. All it really did was in the beginning make for some good revenue because people either didn't quite understand the rules or choose to ignore them until they got that 110 dollar ticket in the mail. I don't think they increased accidents or really decreased them either because for me personally I rarely ever saw people blowing through red lights to begin with. The IHSA however did do a study and said accidents decreased by as much as 30 percent in some areas.

The city of Chicago though did get sued and it was founded that some lights were rigged so that it would change from yellow to red in about 2 seconds flat. So saying that they are there to generate revenue is probably also a valid argument.

double-quotes-end.png

Turtle Protege you are correct! And let's not forget what increasing following distance often does - it creates a gap into which one or more vehicles will move, often DEcreasing the stopping "gap". Not saying not to do it... just saying it doesn't always solve the problem and again, can actually make it worse!

As for revenue... it is much worse than you might think. Illinois is broke and commits felonies to raise money. When they learned there was a "margin of error" of like .04 seconds they decided to send everyone a ticket if they were within the margin! They reasoned if there is a .04 second (or whatever it really is) margin of error in the system someone who wasn't (apparently) guilty COULD HAVE BEEN GUILTY OF A VIOLATION so let's send all of them tickets too! wtf.gif

That was the start of (or full on assault anyway) of the serious legal challenges. They lost in court every time. Process was ruled illegal but they continued. The 25% who went to court got their tickets dismissed - the rest paid.

The Village of Lakemoor which had the most desirable retail development intersection for a decade or more (the intersection of US-12 and US-120) got cameras. Paid for EVERYTHING! New police building, cars, Village Hall. Intersection now has a nice Woodman's. Great selection (including Vegan and healthy options), cheap gas and more. Lakemoor even lowered property taxes.

Those cameras are now down thanks to an attorney who warned them - then started suing them EVERY DAY! He won! They lost. But IL gives them time to pay!

Remember, in IL DEAD PEOPLE VOTE! The slogan here is "Vote early and vote often!"

smile.gif

Regardless of the politics behind the red light cameras and big brother's agenda, ever since I began riding motorcycles, I ALWAYs drive in such a manner to avoid accidents, even when an accident would be the other driver's fault.

Since I changed my profile status to "preparing for school" I have been more diligent in reading traffic signs and following ALL the rules of the road. Rick says he generally does not go more than 10 mph over the limit. I have generally stayed within 5 mph of the posted speed limit.

I got my CLP hard card in the mail yesterday. With that in my wallet, I plan to raise my driving diligence to yet another level. I am going to a retirement happy hour after work today. I won't have ONE drink there because I need to drive home. I need to protect that license from here on out. It's just not worth taking the risk.

Dm:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

OOS:

When a violation by either a driver or company is confirmed, an out-of-service order removes either the driver or the vehicle from the roadway until the violation is corrected.

CLP:

Commercial Learner's Permit

Before getting their CDL, commercial drivers will receive their commercial learner's permit (CLP) upon passing the written portion of the CDL exam. They will not have to retake the written exam to get their CDL.

Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar

Marc, I didn't hear one issue that couldn't be solved by keeping plenty of following distance and stopping at red lights. Being cynical, placing blame elsewhere, and arguing that traffic devices make things more dangerous is not what I would expect from someone who intends to be a professional driver.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar
I ALWAYs drive in such a manner to avoid accidents, even when an accident would be the other driver's fault. I have been more diligent in reading traffic signs and following ALL the rules of the road. I plan to raise my driving diligence to yet another level.

Now this is exactly what I would expect to hear from someone who intends to be a top tier professional driver. It all starts with taking 100% of the responsibility for everything that happens out there.

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Marc Lee's Comment
member avatar

Marc, I didn't hear one issue that couldn't be solved by keeping plenty of following distance and stopping at red lights. Being cynical, placing blame elsewhere, and arguing that traffic devices make things more dangerous is not what I would expect from someone who intends to be a professional driver.

Once again Brett, you are taking what I said entirely the wrong way!

I don't disagree with anything Old School said. Especially when driving a CMV.

I successfully drove into Chicago rush period traffic, to the Port and back out also in rush period traffic on 94 with construction and lane closures.

I did it by keeping a safe following distance and increasing it when 3-5 vehicles cut in. I did it by not letting it stress me out. In fact, I made a game of it! When someone cut from the far left across 4 lanes of traffic and the painted "V" to take the exit I simply said "We have a new winner for the Stupid Move of the Day!"

I also drove a 10-speed into Milwaukee rush period traffic which my trainer thought he might have to drive. He said I actually did much better than he thought I would. (With an automatic restriction or less skill I would have been a passenger!) It had been almost a year since I drove a manual, and that was to pass my roadtest, where I got (or lost, forget how they score it) 6 or 8 points on one bad start/turn/shift series and probably 6 or so on another!

I know you don't think that means anything compared to the years of experience you and many others around here have.

But my stating well-known facts about situations with which I am familiar and about which I have personal experience does not make me cynical - nor does it disqualify me from becoming a professional driver.

QUITE THE CONTRARY! I believe it makes me realistic about how things REALLY WORK IN THE REAL WORLD. And that makes me a safer and BETTER driver!

smile.gif

CMV:

Commercial Motor Vehicle

A CMV is a vehicle that is used as part of a business, is involved in interstate commerce, and may fit any of these descriptions:

  • Weighs 10,001 pounds or more
  • Has a gross vehicle weight rating or gross combination weight rating of 10,001 pounds or more
  • Is designed or used to transport 16 or more passengers (including the driver) not for compensation
  • Is designed or used to transport 9 or more passengers (including the driver) for compensation
  • Is transporting hazardous materials in a quantity requiring placards

OWI:

Operating While Intoxicated

Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar

Marc, you always disagree with my take on everything, then offer your opposing view which you subscribe to with the utmost confidence. You even say you agree with Old School, immediately after describing how in practice you did quite the opposite of what he was suggesting.

I'm confident that whenever someone tried to teach you something about trucking you've done the same thing. You disagreed, you presented your counter-argument and then chose to believe your own story. I've told you from day one that wouldn't serve you well when trying to learn a new trade. Unfortunately, that practice appears to be deeply rooted in your thinking. That's a shame. You won't learn anything if you think you already have it all figured out.

QUITE THE CONTRARY! I believe it makes me realistic about how things REALLY WORK IN THE REAL WORLD. And that makes me a safer and BETTER driver!

I'm sure you believe that, and I'm sure believing that makes you feel better. However, I never heard you mention a word about personal responsibility with any of the tickets or accidents you had. I heard the ole classics instead - blame, complain, and criticize.

Believe what you like, I guess. That's what you'll do anyhow.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Jrod's Comment
member avatar

double-quotes-start.png

Why would fewer red-light cameras lead to fewer accidents?

double-quotes-end.png

It's pretty simple, really. I've actually seen it play out in the real world. Vehicle #1 goes through a stale yellow. Vehicle #2 stops abruptly to avoid running the red light. Vehicle #3 slams into vehicle #2 because #3 thought #2 was going through the intersection.

FYI... I have been on both ends of the rear-ender situation having been held liable for rear-ending someone who came to a dead stop in the middle of a highway in rush-period traffic AND being ticketed for an uninsured motorist rear-ending me because "I didn't leave him enough room".

Also... if you don't know... when they took the guardrails down from the Pacific Coast Highway fatal accidents went down.

shocked.png

IDK about the red lights, but with the guard rails and other safety features, the studies are clear. From Football gear to other safety measure, people always have an "acceptable" amount of risk they are willing to take. Its almost subconscious.

The easiest way to explain is think of risk as a scale of 1-10.

1 is being covered in Bubble tape and Hand Sanitizer and locking yourself in a concrete bunker. 10 is jumping out of a plane without a parachute.

Most people have an "acceptable risk allowance" of 3-4.

When safety gear is added or subtracted, people adjust accordingly to fall back into their level.

When they add more pads and protective gear to football players, it lowers the safety rating back down to a "2", so they start playing more aggressively to get back into their 3-4 range.

When the guard rails are up on cliff side roads, that makes people feel they can go a little faster. When they are down, people go a little slower.

It's all about maintaining your brain's personal level of 'risk'.

Obviously, much smarter folks have explained this in far more (and larger) words, but that was my basic take-away. Same things goes with those experiments where towns remove all road signs and traffic lights, accidents go down because people have to drive more carefully.

Its really an interesting dive into the human psychology.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Bumping Brett’s reply to Marc. I agree with Brett...totally. You are,... your own worst enemy Mark.

“3-points of contact to enter or exit a tractor”

You knew better, right? Ask Delco Dave and Bullit about that... I instructed them on the only way to safely enter and exit my truck when they rode with me. First thing I did, before anything else...

And watched them get in and out a few times to make sure they weren’t shortcutting anything, or had their hands occupied with holding some other object. Many things we do out here are unconditional...and not up to the discretion of an individual’s opinion or belief system.

One of my favorite sayings...

“If you believe you are the smartest person in the room,...maybe you are in the wrong room.”

Marc, you always disagree with my take on everything, then offer your opposing view which you subscribe to with the utmost confidence. You even say you agree with Old School, immediately after describing how in practice you did quite the opposite of what he was suggesting.

I'm confident that whenever someone tried to teach you something about trucking you've done the same thing. You disagreed, you presented your counter-argument and then chose to believe your own story. I've told you from day one that wouldn't serve you well when trying to learn a new trade. Unfortunately, that practice appears to be deeply rooted in your thinking. That's a shame. You won't learn anything if you think you already have it all figured out.

double-quotes-start.png

QUITE THE CONTRARY! I believe it makes me realistic about how things REALLY WORK IN THE REAL WORLD. And that makes me a safer and BETTER driver!

double-quotes-end.png

I'm sure you believe that, and I'm sure believing that makes you feel better. However, I never heard you mention a word about personal responsibility with any of the tickets or accidents you had. I heard the ole classics instead - blame, complain, and criticize.

Believe what you like, I guess. That's what you'll do anyhow.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
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