Fired From CR England For Two Accidents

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Eugene K.'s Comment
member avatar

Hey Daniel -

The ink is not even dry on my contract with Wilson and I have to chime in and say you’re incorrect.

The “one year” stipulation so often referenced on this site states that my CDL training is FREE so long as I honor a year of employment with the company. It is NOT an employment contract guaranteeing me a safe position if I show up in “good faith.” It does not protect me from termination if I violate company policy by backing into things, and if I do those things within my first year and end up terminated, I owe either the full $3750 for the training or a pro-rated amount based on when it happened.

You seem to be conflating an employment contract with a contract for services provided free of charge upon completion of a commitment term. We are not talking about an employment contract.

The $70 weekly clause at Prime is identical to mine here at Wilson. The training IS free SO LONG AS you complete a year of employment. If you do anything to get yourself fired within your first year, whether it’s back into something, curse out your fleet manager , or refuse to flush the toilet in the driver lounge, you owe the balance of the training.

Good faith does not apply because these are not employment contracts. They are a contract for services rendered. Make sense?

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

Fleet Manager:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Eric S.'s Comment
member avatar

Do you think I have a chance on getting hired anywhere else?. Doesn’t have to be particularly a mega carrier

Hey Daniel -

The ink is not even dry on my contract with Wilson and I have to chime in and say you’re incorrect.

The “one year” stipulation so often referenced on this site states that my CDL training is FREE so long as I honor a year of employment with the company. It is NOT an employment contract guaranteeing me a safe position if I show up in “good faith.” It does not protect me from termination if I violate company policy by backing into things, and if I do those things within my first year and end up terminated, I owe either the full $3750 for the training or a pro-rated amount based on when it happened.

You seem to be conflating an employment contract with a contract for services provided free of charge upon completion of a commitment term. We are not talking about an employment contract.

The $70 weekly clause at Prime is identical to mine here at Wilson. The training IS free SO LONG AS you complete a year of employment. If you do anything to get yourself fired within your first year, whether it’s back into something, curse out your fleet manager , or refuse to flush the toilet in the driver lounge, you owe the balance of the training.

Good faith does not apply because these are not employment contracts. They are a contract for services rendered. Make sense?

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

Fleet Manager:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Eric wants to know...

Do you think I have a chance on getting hired anywhere else?. Doesn’t have to be particularly a mega carrier

Yes...

But...

...you must take ownership of both accidents and mistakes. Adjust your attitude and stop blaming the “fence” for your second preventable backing accident. Your responsibility, accept accountability and present yourself as humble offering solutions for preventing future accidents.

If you continue to push blame onto others and debate contract validity...no company will give you a chance. Check your ego... learn from your mistake. Don’t trust others to do your job.

Old School's Comment
member avatar

Thanks Eugene! That was an excellent run down of the contractual obligation!

Yesterday I just decided to drop out of this conversation because the information in it was so confusing. Eric said...

They terminated my lease with them

That made it sound as if he were a lease/operator. Which then turned out to be inaccurate. I decided to wait until some more information shook itself out so that I could jump back in here and make some sense out of the confusion. We want folks who read this in the future to get a grasp on the concepts of these contracts and understand how this stuff works. There are sound reasons why we give the advice we do. My first thing I wanted to discuss was how these are not really employment contracts. Daniel seems to think he has some special knowledge on certain subjects, and he very well may. I just haven't seen it demonstrated very well yet. He likes to insert himself at times, but he has proven to be not as helpful as we would like. I haven't quite figured him out yet, but we will.

Eric, I know you feel like you got wronged on the issue with the gate. It's understandable. You thought the security guard would do as you asked. It turned out differently than you expected and that certainly makes it appear to be someone else's fault. Here's the harsh reality to trucking. You are the guy moving the truck. If you hit something or somebody while you are moving that truck it is highly likely to be your fault. I've thought about what you have told us a lot. For your information and for others I am going to say this... "Backing through a gate is generally not a good idea." I can't think of a time in the last eight years of driving where I felt I should back through a gate. When entering a yard or a customer you are entering a confined area where it is highly likely other big trucks or fork lifts will be moving around. There is also limited space. It is a scenario that should almost always be approached moving forward for the increased visibility. Here is what you told us about the event...

I told the gate guard at the loredo yard not to lower the fence because I needed to back up a little bit so I could fuel my reefer tank.

I honestly can't make sense out of that comment. Is the yard so small that trucks are blocking the gate to get fuel in their reefer tanks? Why do you need to back up to fuel your reefer tank? Most of us are pulling forward to fuel our reefers. Is it more plausible to say you should have fueled your reefer tank before you ever got to the security guard? I am thinking that is the problem. If I am on the right track here then let me tell you what most experienced safe drivers would have done. We would have told the security guard, "Hey, I just realized I forgot to fuel my reefer tank. I am going to pull out of the yard go down the road a bit until I can get turned around and come back in so I can get some fuel. It wouldn't matter if we had to drive 8 or 9 miles to get turned around. Trust me, there have been times I have driven further than that to find a proper and safe place to turn my rig around. That's prudence on the driver's part. It's basic safety in a big truck. One of the basic truths I still recall from truck driving school was that I was taught to avoid backing the truck whenever possible. That was golden advice for a rookie, and it keeps it shine even for experienced drivers.

Continued...

Reefer:

A refrigerated trailer.

Old School's Comment
member avatar

Another thing everyone is taught in truck driving school is that we drivers are responsible for making sure the six (6) spaces around our truck are clear and free of obstructions. That applies no matter if we are going forward or backward. What are those spaces?

  • Front
  • Rear
  • Left Side
  • Right Side
  • Below Us (underneath the truck)
  • Above Us (overhanging objects)

Eric defends himself with this comment...

I cannot see an arm above my tractor while backing up because my attention is on my backing and not the person who’s only job it is all day is to lower and raise an arm.

Again. it seems reasonable to the uninitiated. We carry a lot of responsibility out here driving these rigs. They are 70+ feet long, they bend in the middle, and they can be very destructive when mishandled. I just would not have backed through a gate. Eric is a new driver and it is understandable how he could get himself into a mess like this. Here is the kicker. He already had a serious backing mistake.

I backed into a pole that cut power to a plant.

There is no way to calculate what that cost. I had a driver working for me that backed into a power pole, knocking it down. It knocked out power to some traffic lights. Emergency personnel had to direct traffic, and power company trucks had to show up with multiple crews to get it fixed. The bill sent to me was close to 40,000 dollars. You can add on to this one the cost to the plant for the down time and loss of production due to the loss of electricity. It was a costly mistake. His employer took it easy on him and gave him a second chance. They provided him with some additional training, and though he hasn't told us, they probably made it clear that he was now in a probationary period. That just means he needs to avoid any type of accidents during the probation period. Otherwise it will likely mean termination. This is all standard procedure with rookies. Maybe the rookies don't always understand the severity of the situation, but it is still pretty much standard stuff. That is why we advise like we do. We tell people all the time, "Don't hit anything!" We tell people to G.O.A.L. (Get Out And Look) We end up helping people all the time who have gone through this type scenario find new employment.

The most critical thing is that you take responsibility for the error. Beyond that you have got to learn from the experience. There is no way anybody will hire you if you blame your problem on the security guard. You have got to shoot straight with anybody you are talking to. They want to hear that you know you made a stupid mistake. Backing through a gate is not a smart move. Accept that and learn from it. Be prepared to tell them what you have learned. That is what they want to hear. If you don't learn from these experiences you will seriously limit your opportunities. That is what we want to get across. It is critical information that will help you find another trucking job.

That's what is frustrating when Daniel tries to tell people that they should be able to find a work around on these contracts. It is terrible advice. These rookies just want a job. It does no good to tell them to fight their employer who just terminated them. What they need is to accept their responsibility and to move forward by learning from their mistakes. That is the golden formula for developing ourselves into professional drivers. Professional drivers can keep and find new jobs when needed, but they don't do that by being combative and stubborn. They do it by learning from their mistakes. We've all learned some hard lessons out here. That is the way we get better at this.

Playing the blame game never pays off.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Jammer a's Comment
member avatar

Gotta roll with g-town on this bro drivers make mistakes most mistakes are 100 % preventable pointing fingers don’t fix the problem finding a way out of a situation does good luck

Eric wants to know...

double-quotes-start.png

Do you think I have a chance on getting hired anywhere else?. Doesn’t have to be particularly a mega carrier

double-quotes-end.png

Yes...

But...

...you must take ownership of both accidents and mistakes. Adjust your attitude and stop blaming the “fence” for your second preventable backing accident. Your responsibility, accept accountability and present yourself as humble offering solutions for preventing future accidents.

If you continue to push blame onto others and debate contract validity...no company will give you a chance. Check your ego... learn from your mistake. Don’t trust others to do your job.

Daniel 's Comment
member avatar

Daniel first off... YES I received FREE training from Prime based on me staying a full year and not quitting or getting fired. . IF I left, my future employer would make deductions to pay prime. I have been here 5 years and never paid for schooling.

If you read the article posted....in parenthesis he writes "If an employer can only fire an EMPLOYEE for good cause" that was an example of a contract stipulation. Meaning not all contracts include that

That line spoke of EMPLOYEE example not independent contractor. Those in trucking are very specific with those terms.

By your logic, if I am a new a driver and roll a truck or hit bridge then I cannot be fired because I am under contract?

Prime financed your training, then forgave the debt when you worked for them for one year, correct?

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Daniel 's Comment
member avatar

Hey Daniel -

The ink is not even dry on my contract with Wilson and I have to chime in and say you’re incorrect.

The “one year” stipulation so often referenced on this site states that my CDL training is FREE so long as I honor a year of employment with the company. It is NOT an employment contract guaranteeing me a safe position if I show up in “good faith.” It does not protect me from termination if I violate company policy by backing into things, and if I do those things within my first year and end up terminated, I owe either the full $3750 for the training or a pro-rated amount based on when it happened.

You seem to be conflating an employment contract with a contract for services provided free of charge upon completion of a commitment term. We are not talking about an employment contract.

The $70 weekly clause at Prime is identical to mine here at Wilson. The training IS free SO LONG AS you complete a year of employment. If you do anything to get yourself fired within your first year, whether it’s back into something, curse out your fleet manager , or refuse to flush the toilet in the driver lounge, you owe the balance of the training.

Good faith does not apply because these are not employment contracts. They are a contract for services rendered. Make sense?

I get what you are saying. You signed up for company financed training, incurring a roughly $5,000 debt, which is forgiven after one year if you don't quit or are fired, correct?

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

Fleet Manager:

Dispatcher, Fleet Manager, Driver Manager

The primary person a driver communicates with at his/her company. A dispatcher can play many roles, depending on the company's structure. Dispatchers may assign freight, file requests for home time, relay messages between the driver and management, inform customer service of any delays, change appointment times, and report information to the load planners.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Daniel 's Comment
member avatar

I see. Well there isn’t much of anything I can do now going forward but to own up to it and be honest and accept more training it seems.I still think it’s wrong and the gate keeper wasn’t ordered around he was asked not to do something and did it anyways. It follows the same concept of telling someone not to blindly walk behind your truck as your eventually going to take your eyes off one side of it but they do it anyways. There has to be some protection for drivers in these types of situations. Not everything can always be attributed to driver fault.

double-quotes-start.png

My contract specifically said that either party had the right to terminate employment yet my debt would remain. It went further to set a weekly $70 amount to be withdrawn from future employers and paid directly to prime. Keep in mind..."failure to comply with company policy" can get you fired every time. And that m policy could be "dont back at a gate... GOAL everytime" etc. "Don't order gate keepers around"

Lawyers.com answers a 1099 question with an explanation about employee contract specifics.

These are deadly machines. Public safety will supercede our rights...look at covid.

BTW...CRE and other mega carriers such as Prime are self insured and determine eligibility. Has nothing to do with insurance companies.

0180166001611989415.jpg

double-quotes-end.png

It doesn't matter who was at fault, your focus should have been on simply proving you were not at fault.

It is not your responsibility to assign fault to anyone but yourself if you are responsible.

A picture of the gate on top of your truck would speak volumes.

Daniel 's Comment
member avatar

It is only 'paid training' if you succeed, otherwise it is debt for failure.

The moment one signs up for company training they are basically taking out a loan.

This loan must be paid back or it can be forgiven.

Is this succinctly correct?

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