How To Determine Normal Operating Range Of Transmission

Kevin, first of all you need to chill out in a big way. You're taking the wrong tone with the wrong people.

The trucks can shift without proper double clutching.

All trucks can shift without clutching. It's called "floating gears". You must have heard of this.

And let me ask you this........how it is you went to school for trucking for six months and don't know how to properly double clutch? You push in the clutch, take it out of gear, let out the clutch, push the clutch back in, put it in gear, let the clutch out. That's it. That's the entire procedure described in one sentence. Regardless of what the road trainer is saying or not saying, after six months in training you still don't know that? You've watched videos on it. You've read about it. You've discussed it. You've practiced it. And after all this time you're just now realizing you have to keep the clutch in until you have the transmission in gear?

I think Old School is right. I think you're lacking confidence. It almost sounds like you're looking for a scapegoat just in case you don't pass the exam.

And on that point, failing the exam a time or two is no big deal anyhow. Sure it's annoying and might cost a few extra bucks but you'll get through it soon enough and be on to the next thing. So there's no need to stress over it. It's not like you get one try and you're done. You'll get all the tries you need.

You posted a "gotch quote" that was taken completely out of the context of my post so i think that would qualify as negative. you implied that i do not have the personality to do the job which is negative and you are implying that " something is missing" so ill be very quick with this. The classroom training was excellent the range training was excellent the road training was terrible. I had to teach myself how to shift the vehicle. when it took my road final for the course i had trouble shifting and one of the instructors said that maybe it was because the normal operating range of the vehicle was different for that truck. so im going into my cdl exam on wednesday not knowing if i know how to shift so id like to find a simulator or something to get some practice to be sure i know what im doing. im a perfectionist when it comes to doing things the right way and feel powerless in that i can not practice driving for the final when i dont know if i can even shift. i didnt really shift properly until my last two training road trips and then had a terrible time shifting in the road final test. i did everything the same...rev up to 15..clutch neutral...clutch gear...rev up to fifteen..clutch neutral..clutch gear...but on the road final i got...rev up to fifteen..clutch neutral...clutch (griiiind)..ok no big deal i missed a gear...rev it back up to fifteen..clutch neutral...clutch (griiiiind)...so i have absolutely no idea why i had so much trouble in the road final and cant get an answer other then that some vehicles have a different operating range and it was my repsonsibility to ask that on the road final.

Kevin, you are greatly mistaken, I've read everything over several times. I still don't get it. After six months you can pass the test, I'm sure of that. I kind of need you to point out what I said that was so negative. I'm having trouble pin pointing what your issues are, it just seems to me that something doesn't add up here.

You make it sound one minute like you are an ace in the hole...

After being evaluated by recruiters from companies across the country ive been offered a half dozen prehires. i am reliable and hard working have no driving or criminal record and do not do drugs and very rarely drink

And then you make it sound like your afraid you can't pass the test. If I thought I could reach out there and give you a boost of confidence, I would. Personally I think that is all you are lacking.

I found every instructor has their own opinions and has their own versions if what's right and wrong. It seems kind of harsh that they would fail you for not having your foot on the clutch before being in gear but maybe it's just me.

Things like going up on the curb or stalling out on a hill, hitting stuff, yes.

Anyways i think you should relax you probably are doing fine.

It's j us t a matter of wanting to be prepared. I'm not sure if I'm missing something and want to make sure there are no "unknown unknowns" eh end it comes to operating the vehicle.

I found every instructor has their own opinions and has their own versions if what's right and wrong. It seems kind of harsh that they would fail you for not having your foot on the clutch before being in gear but maybe it's just me.

Things like going up on the curb or stalling out on a hill, hitting stuff, yes.

Anyways i think you should relax you probably are doing fine.

i didnt really shift properly until my last two training road trips and then had a terrible time shifting in the road final test. i did everything the same...rev up to 15..clutch neutral...clutch gear...rev up to fifteen..clutch neutral..clutch gear...but on the road final i got...rev up to fifteen..clutch neutral...clutch (griiiind)..ok no big deal i missed a gear...rev it back up to fifteen..clutch neutral...clutch (griiiiind)...so i have absolutely no idea why i had so much trouble in the road final and cant get an answer other then that some vehicles have a different operating range and it was my repsonsibility to ask that on the road final.

I read every word of every comment in this thread, and I think what you are experiencing is completely normal. Basically, you're not a pro at shifting yet and you're freaking out about it. I don't know what the instruction is like at your school. Regardless, it sounds like one way or another you understand how to double clutch. Every truck is different. It's not just operating range--each truck just shifts a little differently. On some trucks, you gotta rev a little higher than others, some you gotta shift faster because the rpms drop quicker in neutral, some have different shift patterns. It's just how it is. I had a Volvo with Cummins for a couple months and got used to shifting in that. Then I switched to a freightliner with Detroit and had to adjust to that truck. I wasn't stalling or anything major like that...I still knew how to shift. But I ground the gears a little more at first until I got used to it.

At my cdl school, I also had to learn on several different trucks. I didn't pass my test the first time so I had to test again. I didn't test on the same truck the second time.

Here's my advice. Don't worry about how crappy the school is right now. They may suck, or they may be great. That doesn't matter to you right now--it will only distract you. Just focus on passing that test.

The operating range is gonna be pretty similar on most trucks, so focus on the process of shifting and double-clutching. That will be the same no matter which truck you're in. Listen to the engine to try to hear what it's doing. If you hear the rpms dropping quickly, shift quickly. If slowly, shift slowly. If the engine sounds and feels like it's having a really hard time revving up to 1500 rpms, maybe you should try revving to 1400 instead.

Once you pass that test and go get your first trucking job, then you can worry about the school's problems.

By the way, my advice comes from personal experience. My school had its own set of problems, probably worse than yours. My total time behind the wheel (including backing practice) was maybe 24 hours total (if even that) over the course of two weeks--it was a three week course, but we didn't spend any time in the trucks the first week. I didn't even get very much practice on some of the backing maneuvers because of all the snow and ice and mud. One of the guys in my class was really upset about all the problems the school had and he was already starting to find problems with the companies he was looking into. While he was complaining about the school and the companies, I was studying my pretrip, practicing backing on free online programs, and practicing double-clutching at a desk with make-believe pedals and a make-believe shifter. We both failed the first time, but guess who ultimately passed and who ultimately didn't. By the time I finished all my training and got my first truck, he was still in school trying to pass that test. He eventually quit texting me altogether, so I assume he never did pass.

Aside from the complaints about the quality of the training regimen, trainers, equipment, etc. - there's an IMPORTANT LESSON for folks in training, that DO NOT HAVE THEIR CDL YET to take note of.

When I first got in a truck at school - I was like; "yeah, been driving a stick since I could walk, I got this". BZZZZT - WRONG. Double Clutching a non-synchronized transmission is a totally different animal, than a car transmission. It was ego/confidence-deflating, to the point where I questioned for a few minutes, what I was even thinking by signing up for trucking school. Luckily, I was doing the class with a friend - and he said - "shut the he11 up and drive".

Problem is (like Kevin), I found out I could FLOAT the gears (as in shift without using the clutch), and I started doing that - INSTEAD OF PERFECTING MY DOUBLE-CLUTCH TECHNIQUE.

Come test day - the examiner (one of the instructors) tells me to pre-trip one of the ROAD TRUCKS (not the yard truck) that I had never driven, grab a trailer and go test. Wouldn't even let me take a few spins around the inside track, to get used to the truck. Then the examiner tells me - NO FLOATING, MUST DOUBLE CLUTCH. I failed my first road test on SHIFTS ALONE (100% on EVERYTHING ELSE - 25 missed shifts).

I was pretty angry with myself - not the school, not the examiner, not the truck - MYSELF, for falling into the trap of taking the easier way out and FLOATING - instead of forcing myself to improve my double-clutching.

Next day - I passed - but I was BRUTAL on the shifts and got screamed at by the instructor for it. I didn't miss any shifts - but I probably could have ripped the shifter right out of the floorboard. Which was TOTALLY UNNECESSARY - because, as with floating - if you are at THE CORRECT RPM/GEAR SPEED - THE TRANSMISSION WILL SHIFT (with or without the clutch).

So again - word to the NEW GUYS/GALS that are in training FOR THEIR CDL SKILLS TEST. RESIST THE TEMPTATION TO FLOAT THE GEARS. There will be millions of miles IN YOUR FUTURE - where you'll never have to touch the clutch again - except to start & stop.

Rick

Kevin - I just don't know what to make of you any more Bro. I'm hoping my original responses on this thread help you to understand what "operating range" is - but your issues seem to go way deeper than that.

Kevin, I think I understand what you're saying. You went 10 of your 14 road trips without being told you were shifting wrong. That's bad, you should have been told on the first trip so you could work on it. And someone said that you could have studied how to double clutch , but you can read about it all you want, it's not the same as doing it. I don't know what to tell you, I just wanted to let you know that I hear you.

I think this is what Rick was saying above, but if you can shift by floating, then I think you just need to press the clutch a little when taking it out of gear, then again when going to the next gear, and you are double clutching.

I'm going to be fine. If like the instructor on the range said that the normal operating range of the trucks is different on the test vehicles then that's my only problem. I'm going to ask the normal operating range of the vehicle and for five minutes to go through the gears to memorize exactly where they are at. When I had the opportunity to do that on the tractor I took out the last day of training I had no problem.

Kevin, I think I understand what you're saying. You went 10 of your 14 road trips without being told you were shifting wrong. That's bad, you should have been told on the first trip so you could work on it. And someone said that you could have studied how to double clutch , but you can read about it all you want, it's not the same as doing it. I don't know what to tell you, I just wanted to let you know that I hear you.

I think this is what Rick was saying above, but if you can shift by floating, then I think you just need to press the clutch a little when taking it out of gear, then again when going to the next gear, and you are double clutching.

Kevin I strongly believe your shifting/clutching issue has little to do with operating ratio (as you call it), more to do with how far to the floor you are depressing the clutch. If you push the clutch too far, the clutch break will start to kick-in and completely foul your shift.

Tap the clutch, no more than 2" as you double clutch. No more than that is necessary.

Beyond that when it comes to shifting, the primary difference from one truck to the next is clutch play (how it's adjusted and worn), the shift pattern (8,10, 13 speed, etc.), and how tight or loose the shift gate is. Operating ratio is fairly constant in the newer trucks.

Practice and repetition is the only true remedy for becoming proficient at shifting. You haven't been doing it long enough to develop the "feel" for it. It will take time.

Kevin, I completely agree with G-Town about the clutch. Really all you need to be doing is kind of tapping it down just a little.

I want to add something, at the risk of you thinking I'm being negative, and that is: I don't recommend you take that approach of asking them about the operating range, and for five minutes to practice so that you can get the feel of the truck.

When you show up you are showing up to be tested. You've already prepared yourself and you are ready to prove that you are capable of doing this - that is how they see it. One of the major things they want to see is that you are confident in your understanding of how to operate a commercial vehicle. By starting off your test with a question like that, and then saying you need a few minutes to practice (which I cannot see them allowing), you are, right off the bat, pre-disposing the person testing you to be concerned, and therefore more critical in their critique of your driving.

Get in, buckle up, and drive the truck like you know what you're doing. That's what you want to do - that's what they are looking for. They know you're a greenhorn rookie, and they are expecting you to miss or grind a few gears. What they are looking for is that you can confidently recover when you do screw up.

Here's a couple of tips. If you are driving a ten speed, sixth gear has a nice wide RPM range. If you get yourself in a bind while rolling and you can't get it in gear, splitter up, tap the throttle and as the rpm is falling off push it into sixth gear and go with it. Also, there's no reason to start in first gear with an empty trailer, start off in third gear, give a little throttle as you ease off the clutch, and off you go.

We're wishing you the best Kevin. Don't over think it, and try to calm your nerves - that's what messes everyone up. The person evaluating you is looking for some confidence, not perfection.