One On One Help In Backing

Topic 22728 | Page 2

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STJ's Comment
member avatar

Thanks for advice

Well I'm glad you're in training, anyhow. Unfortunately your concern with one-on-one training is needless. Almost no one gets much in the way of one-on-one training in the beginning because it simply isn't necessary. In fact, some of the best learning you'll do is from observing others. When you can watch others to see what works and what doesn't it gives you a new perspective, especially with shifting and backing.

Once you get out on the road you'll be one-on-one with a trainer. But in the beginning it's not necessary.

Keep something else in mind. You're going to these schools without finding success, but you're in the same program where others are getting through just fine. Don't sell yourself short. The idea that you need some sort of special hand-holding is all in your mind. If others can do it, you can do it. You have to approach any challenge you face with the confidence that you're going to be able to handle it. This is trucking. It's one of the deadliest jobs in America. It takes a tremendous amount of independence and nerve to handle this job. School is the easiest part of the whole thing. If you can't muster up the confidence and nerve to get through the classroom and driving range portion without someone holding your hand then how are you going to handle it when you're on your own and things get real out there?

Don't sell yourself short. Have confidence. Face these challenges and find a way to make it happen. If you only think you can get through when the circumstances are perfect then you're not going to be around for long. Handling adverse conditions is one of the most critical roles in this job.

millionmiler24's Comment
member avatar

One thing that needs to be understood here: No Paid CDL Training Programs are gonna be purely one on one instruction at least to my knowledge. If there are any please post them on here. As Brett stated everything there is learned in groups and observin others is a great way to learn. Whoever your 1st choice was you should see if they will take you back.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
Rainy D.'s Comment
member avatar

One thing that needs to be understood here: No Paid CDL Training Programs are gonna be purely one on one instruction at least to my knowledge. If there are any please post them on here.

Prime

Orientation was in groups and SIM classes but that is it. When I got my permit, i went out one on one for 10k miles. then i went teaming. there was no schooling or sharing a truck or instructor with other students. it was start the truck, drive around the parking lot, now turn into the street. they do less permit miles now due to the automatics, but with the permit, you drive across country delivering. One on one with an instructor. When Splitter (and I in 2015) had problems passing the exam, we were both given different one on one instructors from.who originally trained us. After my teaming, i asked for even more backing help before i uograded and they gave it to me. Splitter and his original insrructor drove to UT from MO and back. Then he tested.

Im guessing Wils Trans and Jim palmer would be similar? They seem to share a lot of ideas and policies.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
Rainy D.'s Comment
member avatar

Yep, Wil Trans does the same as per our forum member G

Wils Trans TT Diary

Wil-Trans:

Darrel Wilson bought his first tractor in 1980 at age 20, but, being too young to meet OTR age requirements, he leased the truck out and hired a driver.

Through growth and acquisition, Wil-Trans now employs over 200 drivers, and has a long-standing partnership with Prime, Inc. to haul their refrigerated freight. The family of businesses also includes Jim Palmer Trucking and O & S Trucking.

G-Town's Comment
member avatar

A different thought process...backing is the bane of most student's existence. Many do not approach it correctly. STJ your thinking is slightly flawed. One on one might help, but it still comes down to you.

All of the schools teach and instruct just enough for a student to pass the CDL A. That's it. Nothing more. If a school states otherwise, call BS and move on.

Once they teach, instruct on thevbasics of backing; setting up, reference points, and turning left to go right/ right to go left,...what else is there? Hours/days of one-on-one won't change that approach or likely the outcome. Other than critiquing and occasional up-close guidance...a student is left alone. And they should be.

Learning how to back is 80% on you;... the student to practice and observe; applying yourself to work it out and figure it out on your own. If they see a student putting forth effort, focusing and paying attention to the attempts of others, they (the instructors) will usually offer assistance and help get you through the rough spots. They attend to those putting forth a superior effort, and much less on anything less than that. Especially true for Paid CDL Training Programs. But extended periods of one-on-one? Not gonna happen.

Practice, repetition, effort, and focus are the great equalizers when learning how to back. Always looking for opportunities to practice. No substitutes.

It took me the better part of 6 months before I was slightly adequate. Considering 3 of those first 6 months was Walmart Dedicated (averaging 5 close-quarter backs per day), that equates to roughly 500 attempts just to become that, adequate.

After 1 year and about 1200 or so backing attempts, reasonable proficiency was achieved. The only reason I was able to get to that level was repetition and focus. I became a student of the skill purely because of the frequency of it. I had no choice but to embrace it as a very important part of the job that maximizes my earning potential. Reality. Same reality a student must embrace at school.

In short I never gave-up when I was in school learning how to back. Same thing for every driver on this forum, they too never gave up. You must be tenacious, like a bulldog and motivated to rise above the difficulty of this.

Otherwise...just another statistic validating the 85-90% rate of failure. Be the other 10-15%, be the bulldog when learning how to back.

Good luck!

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Errol V.'s Comment
member avatar

G-Town points you in the right direction:

A different thought process...backing is the bane of most student's existence. Many do not approach it correctly. STJ your thinking is slightly flawed. One on one might help, but it still comes down to you.

STJ, I'm a trainer at Swift's school in Memphis. I agree with G-Town: it's got to be "learned" into your head. I can stand outside a truck with a student, and tell them "put more right into it!" or something, and generally can get these students to back the trailer through a 90 degree alley dock all day long. But I know this is not the training for students to do the same thing all by themselves. I also, as G-Town explained, tell students to watch what the back of the trailer does. Your success is in learning and reading the back corner of the trailer as it moves toward your target cone. And that is something you can practice on your own way better than an instructor standing outside your window can do for you.

Big Scott's Comment
member avatar

When I was in school with CFI, I had the benefit of working one on one with all three instructors and some of my classmates. I benefited from the different teaching styles. Chris, one of the instructors, and I got along great and I loved it when he yelled at me. So, there are many different ways to get one on one help. After the 4 weeks of CDL school and testing, I went out one on one with a trainer, where I did all the work for 7500 miles. With all that one still needs to be able to do it by themselves. I have benefited from a good network of people who can help with a phone call. Of course dispatch and road service are always there when needed. Good luck.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.
G-Town's Comment
member avatar

Big Scott offers this:

When I was in school with CFI, I had the benefit of working one on one with all three instructors and some of my classmates. I benefited from the different teaching styles.

Let's be clear about something here; the first couple of days I too had one on one with two different instructors either walking back with the truck or instructing what do before walking back with the truck. Grand total of about 30 minutes. Other students got more if necessary but typically not beyond the first couple of days. Errol??? What is the current process?

Was it prolonged or hours or days at a time? No... Provide some context Big Scott; "how much one-on-one did you actually get?

Brett Aquila's Comment
member avatar

This is the key point to understand about backing, from G-Town:

Learning how to back is 80% on you;... the student to practice and observe; applying yourself to work it out and figure it out on your own. If they see a student putting forth effort, focusing and paying attention to the attempts of others, they (the instructors) will usually offer assistance and help get you through the rough spots. They attend to those putting forth a superior effort, and much less on anything less than that. Especially true for Paid CDL Training Programs. But extended periods of one-on-one? Not gonna happen.

Practice, repetition, effort, and focus are the great equalizers when learning how to back. Always looking for opportunities to practice. No substitutes.

This emphasis on one-on-one instruction is completely unnecessary. Do you know where they teach things to people in groups?

  • Harvard University
  • Yale University
  • The West Point Academy
  • The United States Naval Academy
  • University of Oxford
  • Princeton University

You see my point? If the greatest teaching institutions in the world can teach the most complex subjects known to mankind in groups then I'm pretty sure they can teach truck driving in groups too. People get very little in the way of one-on-one instruction for nuclear physics, macro economics, or aerospace engineering so you won't need much in the way of one-on-one instruction to learn truck driving, either.

So please, don't get hung up on something like that.

Lastly, please keep in mind that 95% of what it takes to become a top tier driver isn't taught in any schools. You'll learn a ton about it here on our website in places like this:

You'll learn most of it out on your own just doing it.

There are some subjects that are easier to learn from books and teachers. Trucking isn't really one of them. Trucking is more of a skill, which takes a lot of practice, and the knowledge part of it really amounts to "street smarts" more than anything. That's why truck driving schools only teach what it takes to pass the CDL exam. Beyond that it's mostly something you learn by doing.

CDL:

Commercial Driver's License (CDL)

A CDL is required to drive any of the following vehicles:

  • Any combination of vehicles with a gross combined weight rating (GCWR) of 26,001 or more pounds, providing the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the vehicle being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 or more pounds, or any such vehicle towing another not in excess of 10,000 pounds.
  • Any vehicle, regardless of size, designed to transport 16 or more persons, including the driver.
  • Any vehicle required by federal regulations to be placarded while transporting hazardous materials.

HOS:

Hours Of Service

HOS refers to the logbook hours of service regulations.
Errol V.'s Comment
member avatar

Brett brings it all together. One on one may be ok for voice lessons, but not in the eye-hand coordination and mirror skills needed for backing a truck. Yes, it's best if you know your goal, and understand how the tractor and trailer work together - all learned through practice.

G-Town asks for an update:

Errol??? What is the current (training) process?

Hasn't changed. First the instructors demonstrate the turns needed to get the trailer into the box. Then students go out two-three together to a range truck and practice.

Don't think you aren't learning while you watch the other drivers. If you're in the seat, you learn how your technique is. Standing and waiting, watch the trailer and see how it moves.

That's how you learn, not by having an instructor sit next to you.

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